David,
FYI (just a thought): Keep in mind the flotation devices you have to inflate yourself may be convenient to wear but will not cover all safety circumstances. If a person gets "popped" in the head with the board or mast, you may be temporarily out of commission when you hit the water. Whenever I decide to put one on, I like the comforting feeling to be wearing the kind that will keep your head afloat the moment you hit the water.
Patrick
Also, in a bizarre way, makes it more likely you'll need it as it makes swimming after a rig more difficult. As well, there are times, like in waves, where floating is not a good idea. You need to be able to duck the rig under the water.
From all the years of being on the internet and following the sport, your biggest risks are exposure (hypothermia), boats and heart attacks. If you go out, you need to be dressed to spend at least a half hour in the water, if not more.
Not to second guess anybody's decisions but I've had some chats with Chris P. and Richard Genet, who has a lot of surf experience, and would like to put forth the following idea: a lot of time, our instinct to swim back to Van Pugh is the wrong one. I think it's easier to discuss this when none of us are tired, in the water, cold and decision making difficult.
If you are a half mile out in 30 mph winds, it's not a half mile swim back. Because the wind is pushing you at least 1 mph downwind, and I'd be optimistic to say that most of us could swim more than 1 mph in those conditions (short, steep chop), the swim is probably more like 3/4 mile or even longer - the hypotenuse of a right triangle. As well, swimming across that swell is difficult at the white water is breaking over you periodically. If you swim, instead, downwind, you'll be more comfortable being pushed by the waves. You'll be swimming towards your equipment if it turns itself about and the sails drops in the water. You'll be traveling probably closer to 2 mph between body surfing the swell, the wind pushing you and your swimming. Even if you tread water, you'll be swimming effectively faster than across the wind as you are driven downwind.
Obviously, this doesn't work in Aruba where downwind means Venezuala but it does work at VP when Chestnut ridge is often 1/2 mile or less downwind. You'll spend less time in the water where the risks of exposure and fatigue are the greatest.
Another thing that Chris P. brought up is if you are in overpowering conditions, take advantage of the gusts to go upwind (a lot of us bleed power by pointing upwind). That way if you run into trouble, your drift is towards, not away from, safety. Also, if you are having trouble with your jibes, do them directly upwind of VP and Aqualand, again so if you have any problems, you end up on a beach. Obviously s#it can happen in the middle of the lake (which is precisely where a mast broke on me one time) but you can reduce some of the risk by doing most of your sailing in a safer zone (again, I'm not knocking anyone because, we've all paid our dues).
Also, here are a couple of links on rough water swimming that may be helpful. Note that what works for short distances in a pool, kicking, is not so good for long distances (most long distance swimmers and triathletes kick very little):
* When swimming in choppy conditions other than when the chop is coming from behind, the motion of the recovery arm may need to be 'rounder' and enter further in front of the body.
* When the chop is coming from behind a long glide can be used with a pull and kick timed to 'ride the wave'.
* In highly turbulent water, it may be necessary to 'search' for some non-disturbed water outside of the 'normal' stroke pattern, by going wider or deeper. If the water near the surface is turbulent then effective forces may be produced later in the stroke than when swimming in smooth conditions. This may involve 'pushing' harder than usual just prior to exit. The swimmer needs to develop patterns of neuromuscular coordination to suit the conditions.
* Being able to breathe bilaterally provides an advantage by being able to breath comfortably to the side away from the chop thereby avoiding excessive body roll, minimising disruption to technique, and swallowing much less water!
* Good core stability helps to maintain good body alignment in roguh conditions and turbulence.
* Practising in a range of open water conditions helps enables successful adaptation to any conditions in open-water competition.
* Muscles that are not used or are used minimally in flat-water swimming may be used to compensate for perturbations in open water swimming so that good alignment is maintained. The strength and endurance of muscles required for the specific demands of open water swimming is probably best developed by training in those conditions.
* The ability to 'swim straight', independent of the breathing side, is an important skill. Similarly, good technique in sighting the course buoys or landmarks is crucial. Minimising the disruption to the normal stroke pattern and optimal body position will help with average swim speed. Hence being able to couple a breath with the sighting manoeuvre is an added advantage, and should be practised regularly.
* Kicking in long distance swimming uses a great deal of energy and its contribution to propulsion may not warrant that energy expenditure. When swimming in salt water, or in a wet suit that supports the legs, good alignment may be achieved with minimal reliance on kicking.
* 'Bursts' of vigorous kicking to assist 'wave riding' and clearing crowded and turbulent areas such as at starts and turning buoys may be required. Therefore some specific fitness needs to be developed for this.
i was going to say the same.
I would say after the first 10-15 seconds of swimming hard after the rig and not catching it i would slow down and catch my breath. Until i catch my breath it is hard to do anything. then think positive and make a quick plan.
It is like a rip current you go with it or at a 90 degree. The rig is usually lost in the most windy and wavy spot on the lake. So as it drifts downwind it will get into less intense conditions.
Also the same is true for the swimmer the fast way out of theses ruff conditions is to go with the flow.
also the the more you use the wave to push you the less the person has to mmove his legs and arms which will keep the water from cooling you so fast.
also it is very hard to swim up(gravity is pulling you back) and over a wave
i find that if i don't keep my back to the wave(chop) i will usually get a mouth full of water. My mouth is wide open trying hard to get air.
also when you have the rig i liketo fly the sail(like in a water start) and let this pull me towards a shore so get out fast and then walking back.
.From all the years of being on the internet and following the sport, your biggest risks are exposure (hypothermia), boats and heart attacks. If you go out, you need to be dressed to spend at least a half hour in the water, if not more.
It seems to me like hypothermia would be the biggest risk factor, but I've never heard or read about anyone having a problem with it. I've read of a few instances of boats or jet skis hitting windsurfers, and a few cases of heart attacks. (In fact, one of my firends had one while windsurfing). I'm guessing boats are the biggest risk overall, though in the winter hypoythermia seems like a bigger risk.
I wonder how long it would take before hypothermia sets in. The half hour mentioned seems pessimistic (though it would pay to be pessimistic). I recall watching some disaster shows on TV (ferry crashes in Russia, boats sinking, etc) and they seemed to say the passengers had 4-6 hours to survive in pretty cold water. However, they didn't have wet or dry suits on, so hopefully we could last longer if need be. Does anyone have any info on that? (BTW- I'm not intersted in doing any experiments to find out).
Hypothermia is a bigger problem in SF and the Gorge with colder water but I seem to recall someone being lost maybe around Naples/ Ft. Myers a couple of years ago and exposure was one of the possible causes.
I am watching this post with interest. Heart attacks, now I definately do not like that one. Anyway, as a recent survivalist, I can tell you that I was wearing a watch and I was looking at it. I swam without stopping for just about 25 minutes trying to catch the rig. You may say that is is long time to spend swimming but again I daily swim 40 minutes in a pool with out stopping, so I have the endurance anyway. But swimming toward your rig in big water has no comparrison to swimming in a pool. In fact, it is not really swimming at all. Due to the waves no rythum can be established. It is more like just trying to create some forward momentem, breathing is illregular and restricted futher by the wet suit. I think the only way to master something like this would be to pratice in REAL conditions. Who wants to do that. As far as swimming against the wind and waves, I don't think anyone would attemp this for long. When you are in the water your common sense tells you that this won't work or is more work than it is worth.
From the time that Chris came by to the time that Chris and I reached shore was just a little over an hour. The resecue that Chris pulled off was more difficult that you might think. The two of us butt sailing his board and trading off due to fatigue. During this time of butt sailing no one else noticed us.
I did what I thought was best. I quit swimming, let my board and rig go, tried to get my breath ( which was very difficult and I never did calm down my breathing because you CANNOT take a break ) and I began looking for someone to rescue me. I took off my yellow helmet and began waving it. I think the best thing that happend was for Chris to come by and allow me to use his board for flotaion so I could recover. I am not sure if I could have fully recovered my breathing with out the flotation of his board. If you have to swim to shore your first decision is going to be to go the shortest distance.
What about a small backpack that held somthing that floated with a rope attached to it so you could swim if necessary by just towing the flotation device.
This whole subject is one well worth exploring. Also, lets not forget the Buddy System.
My sailing instructor was adamant about one thing - everyone should have a good whistle and after hearing about this, I'm thinking she was right. It would be of no use when no one is aroud, but might just make the difference between being noticed, and not. (Besides, its fun to blow on it when you're really ripping)
A few thoughts:
1. Would a windsurf helmet float? If you got tired, you could take it off and use it to float, at least marginally...? I'm about to buy one.
2. In extreme lake conditions, would using a longer surfboard leash be helpful in retrieving a lost rig? If surfers use it why can't we? Attach it to a back footstrap. They are easy to take off your ankle if you should get caught under the rig.
3. Having competed in rough water long distance, open ocean swimming races (2.5 & 5 miles albeit 75-80 degrees but very rough surf and open ocean swells), it's much better to go with the waves (downwind in our lake case) or diagonally to them (depending on where you are going: board/ shore) and bodysurf the swells if possible. As you "bodysurf", you can acually "rest". The technique is to swim though the waves, not over the top of them. Basically, your hand entry slices into the wave and closer to your head and you reach out horizontally under the water as you extend your arm fully before the pull. It's conterintuitive if you are used to a high arm swing above the water. Your board will probably be closer to you than shore, so it also is important that you keep sight of it in between strokes. Oh did I mention, in between sightings (every 3 or 5 strokes), your head should be facing down, ear by extended arm. Your head and neck WILL make you prematurely tired if you are constantly holding it up. Plus, a more vertical position in the water wil create more drag and slow you down. Bi-lateral breathing will help you time your sightings as well as keep you on a straighter course. You need to practice these skills. It is my opinion that a life vest may hinder speed since it could limit movement, create drag and possibly position you too high in the surf. Another thought here is what to do with your helmet while you swim. Perhaps find a way to clip it on the back of your harness or use to get someone's attention... Don't know the answer to that one, since it could act as a dragging anchor or float.
4. If there was some floatation in the waist harness, I think it would solve eveyone's problem as long as you factor in the weight of a full wetsuit filled with water and determine if it would still hold you up. A specially designed winter-floataion harness? Hummm. I have a DaKine Thermoform (or foam...) and it floats by itself, but have not tried to see how it would hold as a partial flotation device.
Randy, does your complete survival list of items fit in a small waistpack? The whistle is a great idea... if someone is around to hear it. I can imagine fumbling around with my DaKine mitts trying to open my handy waistpack to find it in the first place. My personal fear is that I would get too cold to move if submerged for a period of time. I don't want to find out the hard way how much time it would take! It's probably better not to take chances, stay upwind of the launch site always, sail closer in and agree to watch out for each other... Speaking of buddies, what about the idea of wrapping a length of tow line near the mast foot in case we need to tow each other? I'm not sure how I would do this, but it seems like an idea. Wouldn't it be neat if our club had a couple of jet skis for emergencies?
Humbly submitted.
Mimi,
1. Helmet should float but doesn't provide sufficient buoyancy to be meaningful.
2. Leashes never made it. One word: Tacking.
3. Good tips. Bolsters my thoughts that the best exit may well be downwind not across if you are already downwind of home.
4. Wetsuits float (you really have to add some weights when diving in a thick one. The amound of water inside is immaterial as it is buoyancy neutral - weighs the same as the surrounding water. Anyway, if you have anymore than a cup, your wetsuit doesn't fit well. There are floaty harnesses and this may well be a good use for them.
Thanks for the swimming tips - just the thing Richard and I were looking for, someone who'd experienced considerable open water conditions.
I don't use a waistpack. My stuff fits in a kitesurfing vest which has 2 pockets. It is smaller than a normal lifejacket, but does provide some floatation, warmth and impact resistance. My survival kit is in the pockets.
I think strategic selection of sailing sites is a good idea. That's one reason I like Tidwell better than say VP or even Vann's Tavern for an easterly (other more important reasons being Tidwell is closer to where I live.) On an easterly at Tidwell you would never have to float, swim or drift very far to get to shore. Also, selecting your jibing spot so that it is closest to shore (i.e. near the islands at Vann's Tav) is another good idea.
To quote David: "I think the only way to master something like this would be to pratice in REAL conditions. Who wants to do that. "
...to be honest, a little drill work could be a very good part of your survival development plan - get a buddy on a rigless w/s to shadow you as you try to swim out/back a little ways. This would be safe, but would allow you to see what swimming in cold & wavy water is like.
Also, above I seemed to have read that the board was let go of on purpose - to rest. I think that goes against the basic boating rule - never leave the boat (in this case W/S) - if at all possible - unless there is a really good reason. In a lake I can't think of one. You could even ditch the sail and paddle the board in if needed.
Very interesting conversation. I appreciate the time many of you have taken to offer suggestions and insights vital to our safety. I, also, especially appreciate the rough water swimiing info and other thoughts on training for the possible situation. Mental preparedness is vital for anyoen who goes into "big" conditions.
But, I was getting concerned, nay, horrified, about the acceptable idea of choosing to leave your board when having a problem out on the open water. Finally, RICHARDG got to this in the last reply to point out this is not a good idea. He's absolutely right -- in the lake and in the ocean. I'd like to emphasize that.
As a certified windsurfing instructor, we are taught to teach 10 rules of windsurfing safety of which there are two Golden Rules of Windsurfing: One is "Don't go out in direct off-shore winds", and the other is "NEVER, NEVER, EVER LEAVE YOUR BOARD!" (If you think it is possible that your board could leave YOU and you couldn't catch up with it, regardless of the wind and water conditions, I would never go out there without a PFD, and even then, like several of you pointed out, be aware that even with that PFD, if you're in the wrong place, time and temperature may conspire to do you in anyway.) If you have an equipment breakdown requiring you to "save yourself", detach the sail rig and U-joint, get on your board and paddle for it...and/or try to signal and wait for a rescue. That is standard water safety wisdom arrived at from many decades of real life events "out there". This is so important, that in my beginner lesson liability disclaimer, one of the 3 places I have students sign their names (per my lawyer's advice) is in testimony that I have told them this safety rule. Especially on the ocean, if you ever think you hve to "swim for it", don't. Abandon the rig, get on the board, and paddle for it instead. The board is your flotation.
Also, I carry a water-specific whistle and a flat, stainless steel small pocket knife in my harness pocket. Can't even tell it's there. We know why the whistle, but the knife came about from my own real-life windsurfing "brsh with death" (slightly exaggerated) experience -- I got hoplessly tangled in a huge wad of monofilament fishing that line some bass fisherman had set adrift in the open lake. At first it was one or two loose loops but as I tried to remove that invisible stuff, i got more entangled untill I was literally tied to the board and rig. All limbs but one arm were bound rather tight. I could yell and Patrick Jenkins came and rescued me, and even when back on land, we still had to use a knife to get all that line off. Very scary.
Good conversation, folks. See ya out there, I hope.
Chuck @ Whitecap windsurfing
c: 706-833-9463
Chuck and Richard, maybe I missed something but both David and Slogger both ended up alone in an unintentional dismount. The wind in both cases carried the board away faster than either could swim for it. The question was, what do you do then...
David:
As the board rounded down wind the speed picked up as everything began to get more distorted. For whatever reason, either, I just let go or the rig was torn from my hands, I landed on my back in the water and the sail remained in a vertical position as the board sailed away from me. Finally, I saw the board and rig in the water about 40 FEET from my location. I knew that I must immediately begin swimming toward my rig or it would be gone in a flash.
Christian:
Fell and lost hold of the boom about equidistant from any shore between Van Pugh and Aqualand on a really cold, high wind day. Started swimming for it immediately and just caught the tip of the sail. Went vertical in the water since I thought I was safe. Before I could get a better grip on the sail/mast a breaking swell ripped it out of my hand. The sail had fallen on the board/water such that the pocket of the sail caught maximum wind/chop. It was driven away from me more quickly than I could possibly swim after it.
Both were committed to staying with the board. However, the board had other ideas at the time.
Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:46 am
Subject: Is that a potato chip on your mast?
I used my surf board leash
on the back foot strap to keep from a long swim when the rig gets
tumbled in those kinds of winds.
It would have been if you were at Roosters Rock the last two days.
8 sailors showed up for Sunday and 6 for Monday as 2.8 winds still
left much sheeting out to do. The closest sensor at Corbet read
gusts to 56 and it typically reads 12mph low from Roosters. Water
temp. is still holding at a balmy 46*F.
All in all it was really fun after
a nearly 3 week dry spell of little wind. Great to see so many still
in the area sailing.
you should google around rec.windsurfing (the news group). I'm pretty sure the topic has come up there a few times.
David,
FYI (just a thought): Keep in mind the flotation devices you have to inflate yourself may be convenient to wear but will not cover all safety circumstances. If a person gets "popped" in the head with the board or mast, you may be temporarily out of commission when you hit the water. Whenever I decide to put one on, I like the comforting feeling to be wearing the kind that will keep your head afloat the moment you hit the water.
Patrick
What helmets are for.
Also, in a bizarre way, makes it more likely you'll need it as it makes swimming after a rig more difficult. As well, there are times, like in waves, where floating is not a good idea. You need to be able to duck the rig under the water.
From all the years of being on the internet and following the sport, your biggest risks are exposure (hypothermia), boats and heart attacks. If you go out, you need to be dressed to spend at least a half hour in the water, if not more.
Not to second guess anybody's decisions but I've had some chats with Chris P. and Richard Genet, who has a lot of surf experience, and would like to put forth the following idea: a lot of time, our instinct to swim back to Van Pugh is the wrong one. I think it's easier to discuss this when none of us are tired, in the water, cold and decision making difficult.
If you are a half mile out in 30 mph winds, it's not a half mile swim back. Because the wind is pushing you at least 1 mph downwind, and I'd be optimistic to say that most of us could swim more than 1 mph in those conditions (short, steep chop), the swim is probably more like 3/4 mile or even longer - the hypotenuse of a right triangle. As well, swimming across that swell is difficult at the white water is breaking over you periodically. If you swim, instead, downwind, you'll be more comfortable being pushed by the waves. You'll be swimming towards your equipment if it turns itself about and the sails drops in the water. You'll be traveling probably closer to 2 mph between body surfing the swell, the wind pushing you and your swimming. Even if you tread water, you'll be swimming effectively faster than across the wind as you are driven downwind.
Obviously, this doesn't work in Aruba where downwind means Venezuala but it does work at VP when Chestnut ridge is often 1/2 mile or less downwind. You'll spend less time in the water where the risks of exposure and fatigue are the greatest.
Another thing that Chris P. brought up is if you are in overpowering conditions, take advantage of the gusts to go upwind (a lot of us bleed power by pointing upwind). That way if you run into trouble, your drift is towards, not away from, safety. Also, if you are having trouble with your jibes, do them directly upwind of VP and Aqualand, again so if you have any problems, you end up on a beach. Obviously s#it can happen in the middle of the lake (which is precisely where a mast broke on me one time) but you can reduce some of the risk by doing most of your sailing in a safer zone (again, I'm not knocking anyone because, we've all paid our dues).
Also, here are a couple of links on rough water swimming that may be helpful. Note that what works for short distances in a pool, kicking, is not so good for long distances (most long distance swimmers and triathletes kick very little):
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~ironman/tri/training/open_wtr.htm#cold
http://www.coachesinfo.com/category/swimming/282/
from the second link:
i was going to say the same.
I would say after the first 10-15 seconds of swimming hard after the rig and not catching it i would slow down and catch my breath. Until i catch my breath it is hard to do anything. then think positive and make a quick plan.
It is like a rip current you go with it or at a 90 degree. The rig is usually lost in the most windy and wavy spot on the lake. So as it drifts downwind it will get into less intense conditions.
Also the same is true for the swimmer the fast way out of theses ruff conditions is to go with the flow.
also the the more you use the wave to push you the less the person has to mmove his legs and arms which will keep the water from cooling you so fast.
also it is very hard to swim up(gravity is pulling you back) and over a wave
i find that if i don't keep my back to the wave(chop) i will usually get a mouth full of water. My mouth is wide open trying hard to get air.
also when you have the rig i liketo fly the sail(like in a water start) and let this pull me towards a shore so get out fast and then walking back.
It seems to me like hypothermia would be the biggest risk factor, but I've never heard or read about anyone having a problem with it. I've read of a few instances of boats or jet skis hitting windsurfers, and a few cases of heart attacks. (In fact, one of my firends had one while windsurfing). I'm guessing boats are the biggest risk overall, though in the winter hypoythermia seems like a bigger risk.
I wonder how long it would take before hypothermia sets in. The half hour mentioned seems pessimistic (though it would pay to be pessimistic). I recall watching some disaster shows on TV (ferry crashes in Russia, boats sinking, etc) and they seemed to say the passengers had 4-6 hours to survive in pretty cold water. However, they didn't have wet or dry suits on, so hopefully we could last longer if need be. Does anyone have any info on that? (BTW- I'm not intersted in doing any experiments to find out).
Randy
Hypothermia is a bigger problem in SF and the Gorge with colder water but I seem to recall someone being lost maybe around Naples/ Ft. Myers a couple of years ago and exposure was one of the possible causes.
I am watching this post with interest. Heart attacks, now I definately do not like that one. Anyway, as a recent survivalist, I can tell you that I was wearing a watch and I was looking at it. I swam without stopping for just about 25 minutes trying to catch the rig. You may say that is is long time to spend swimming but again I daily swim 40 minutes in a pool with out stopping, so I have the endurance anyway. But swimming toward your rig in big water has no comparrison to swimming in a pool. In fact, it is not really swimming at all. Due to the waves no rythum can be established. It is more like just trying to create some forward momentem, breathing is illregular and restricted futher by the wet suit. I think the only way to master something like this would be to pratice in REAL conditions. Who wants to do that. As far as swimming against the wind and waves, I don't think anyone would attemp this for long. When you are in the water your common sense tells you that this won't work or is more work than it is worth.
From the time that Chris came by to the time that Chris and I reached shore was just a little over an hour. The resecue that Chris pulled off was more difficult that you might think. The two of us butt sailing his board and trading off due to fatigue. During this time of butt sailing no one else noticed us.
I did what I thought was best. I quit swimming, let my board and rig go, tried to get my breath ( which was very difficult and I never did calm down my breathing because you CANNOT take a break ) and I began looking for someone to rescue me. I took off my yellow helmet and began waving it. I think the best thing that happend was for Chris to come by and allow me to use his board for flotaion so I could recover. I am not sure if I could have fully recovered my breathing with out the flotation of his board. If you have to swim to shore your first decision is going to be to go the shortest distance.
What about a small backpack that held somthing that floated with a rope attached to it so you could swim if necessary by just towing the flotation device.
This whole subject is one well worth exploring. Also, lets not forget the Buddy System.
My sailing instructor was adamant about one thing - everyone should have a good whistle and after hearing about this, I'm thinking she was right. It would be of no use when no one is aroud, but might just make the difference between being noticed, and not. (Besides, its fun to blow on it when you're really ripping)
Randy
A few thoughts:
1. Would a windsurf helmet float? If you got tired, you could take it off and use it to float, at least marginally...? I'm about to buy one.
2. In extreme lake conditions, would using a longer surfboard leash be helpful in retrieving a lost rig? If surfers use it why can't we? Attach it to a back footstrap. They are easy to take off your ankle if you should get caught under the rig.
3. Having competed in rough water long distance, open ocean swimming races (2.5 & 5 miles albeit 75-80 degrees but very rough surf and open ocean swells), it's much better to go with the waves (downwind in our lake case) or diagonally to them (depending on where you are going: board/ shore) and bodysurf the swells if possible. As you "bodysurf", you can acually "rest". The technique is to swim though the waves, not over the top of them. Basically, your hand entry slices into the wave and closer to your head and you reach out horizontally under the water as you extend your arm fully before the pull. It's conterintuitive if you are used to a high arm swing above the water. Your board will probably be closer to you than shore, so it also is important that you keep sight of it in between strokes. Oh did I mention, in between sightings (every 3 or 5 strokes), your head should be facing down, ear by extended arm. Your head and neck WILL make you prematurely tired if you are constantly holding it up. Plus, a more vertical position in the water wil create more drag and slow you down. Bi-lateral breathing will help you time your sightings as well as keep you on a straighter course. You need to practice these skills. It is my opinion that a life vest may hinder speed since it could limit movement, create drag and possibly position you too high in the surf. Another thought here is what to do with your helmet while you swim. Perhaps find a way to clip it on the back of your harness or use to get someone's attention... Don't know the answer to that one, since it could act as a dragging anchor or float.
4. If there was some floatation in the waist harness, I think it would solve eveyone's problem as long as you factor in the weight of a full wetsuit filled with water and determine if it would still hold you up. A specially designed winter-floataion harness? Hummm. I have a DaKine Thermoform (or foam...) and it floats by itself, but have not tried to see how it would hold as a partial flotation device.
Randy, does your complete survival list of items fit in a small waistpack? The whistle is a great idea... if someone is around to hear it. I can imagine fumbling around with my DaKine mitts trying to open my handy waistpack to find it in the first place. My personal fear is that I would get too cold to move if submerged for a period of time. I don't want to find out the hard way how much time it would take! It's probably better not to take chances, stay upwind of the launch site always, sail closer in and agree to watch out for each other... Speaking of buddies, what about the idea of wrapping a length of tow line near the mast foot in case we need to tow each other? I'm not sure how I would do this, but it seems like an idea. Wouldn't it be neat if our club had a couple of jet skis for emergencies?
Humbly submitted.
Mimi
Mimi,
1. Helmet should float but doesn't provide sufficient buoyancy to be meaningful.
2. Leashes never made it. One word: Tacking.
3. Good tips. Bolsters my thoughts that the best exit may well be downwind not across if you are already downwind of home.
4. Wetsuits float (you really have to add some weights when diving in a thick one. The amound of water inside is immaterial as it is buoyancy neutral - weighs the same as the surrounding water. Anyway, if you have anymore than a cup, your wetsuit doesn't fit well. There are floaty harnesses and this may well be a good use for them.
Thanks for the swimming tips - just the thing Richard and I were looking for, someone who'd experienced considerable open water conditions.
Mimi,
I don't use a waistpack. My stuff fits in a kitesurfing vest which has 2 pockets. It is smaller than a normal lifejacket, but does provide some floatation, warmth and impact resistance. My survival kit is in the pockets.
I think strategic selection of sailing sites is a good idea. That's one reason I like Tidwell better than say VP or even Vann's Tavern for an easterly (other more important reasons being Tidwell is closer to where I live.) On an easterly at Tidwell you would never have to float, swim or drift very far to get to shore. Also, selecting your jibing spot so that it is closest to shore (i.e. near the islands at Vann's Tav) is another good idea.
Randy
I'm back - where's the wind?
To quote David: "I think the only way to master something like this would be to pratice in REAL conditions. Who wants to do that. "
...to be honest, a little drill work could be a very good part of your survival development plan - get a buddy on a rigless w/s to shadow you as you try to swim out/back a little ways. This would be safe, but would allow you to see what swimming in cold & wavy water is like.
Also, above I seemed to have read that the board was let go of on purpose - to rest. I think that goes against the basic boating rule - never leave the boat (in this case W/S) - if at all possible - unless there is a really good reason. In a lake I can't think of one. You could even ditch the sail and paddle the board in if needed.
Happy new year.
Very interesting conversation. I appreciate the time many of you have taken to offer suggestions and insights vital to our safety. I, also, especially appreciate the rough water swimiing info and other thoughts on training for the possible situation. Mental preparedness is vital for anyoen who goes into "big" conditions.
But, I was getting concerned, nay, horrified, about the acceptable idea of choosing to leave your board when having a problem out on the open water. Finally, RICHARDG got to this in the last reply to point out this is not a good idea. He's absolutely right -- in the lake and in the ocean. I'd like to emphasize that.
As a certified windsurfing instructor, we are taught to teach 10 rules of windsurfing safety of which there are two Golden Rules of Windsurfing: One is "Don't go out in direct off-shore winds", and the other is "NEVER, NEVER, EVER LEAVE YOUR BOARD!" (If you think it is possible that your board could leave YOU and you couldn't catch up with it, regardless of the wind and water conditions, I would never go out there without a PFD, and even then, like several of you pointed out, be aware that even with that PFD, if you're in the wrong place, time and temperature may conspire to do you in anyway.) If you have an equipment breakdown requiring you to "save yourself", detach the sail rig and U-joint, get on your board and paddle for it...and/or try to signal and wait for a rescue. That is standard water safety wisdom arrived at from many decades of real life events "out there". This is so important, that in my beginner lesson liability disclaimer, one of the 3 places I have students sign their names (per my lawyer's advice) is in testimony that I have told them this safety rule. Especially on the ocean, if you ever think you hve to "swim for it", don't. Abandon the rig, get on the board, and paddle for it instead. The board is your flotation.
Also, I carry a water-specific whistle and a flat, stainless steel small pocket knife in my harness pocket. Can't even tell it's there. We know why the whistle, but the knife came about from my own real-life windsurfing "brsh with death" (slightly exaggerated) experience -- I got hoplessly tangled in a huge wad of monofilament fishing that line some bass fisherman had set adrift in the open lake. At first it was one or two loose loops but as I tried to remove that invisible stuff, i got more entangled untill I was literally tied to the board and rig. All limbs but one arm were bound rather tight. I could yell and Patrick Jenkins came and rescued me, and even when back on land, we still had to use a knife to get all that line off. Very scary.
Good conversation, folks. See ya out there, I hope.
Chuck @ Whitecap windsurfing
c: 706-833-9463
Chuck and Richard, maybe I missed something but both David and Slogger both ended up alone in an unintentional dismount. The wind in both cases carried the board away faster than either could swim for it. The question was, what do you do then...
David:
Christian:
Both were committed to staying with the board. However, the board had other ideas at the time.
Hey,
Here's a link to Boards Magazine's site on windsurfing safety. It's very well done and worth studying.
Bill
http://www.boards.co.uk/articles/index.asp?article_type=11
Bill Herderich
Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:46 am
Subject: Is that a potato chip on your mast?
I used my surf board leash
on the back foot strap to keep from a long swim when the rig gets
tumbled in those kinds of winds.
It would have been if you were at Roosters Rock the last two days.
8 sailors showed up for Sunday and 6 for Monday as 2.8 winds still
left much sheeting out to do. The closest sensor at Corbet read
gusts to 56 and it typically reads 12mph low from Roosters. Water
temp. is still holding at a balmy 46*F.
All in all it was really fun after
a nearly 3 week dry spell of little wind. Great to see so many still
in the area sailing.
da ve