A Start with the proper fin (65 or 70cm) is a ton of fun for the experienced sailor. It won't go upwind as well as a full-blown Formula but it's overall performance is surprisingly good. Mind you, I have one of the earlier versions so I'm not sure how the later ones are but I wouldn't think things are different.
We bought ours for the kids to learn on, thought I'd never use it and it turned into one of the most used boards in the quiver. Still in the family waiting for the young princess to use it. Jr. has moved on to a Jr. Formula when I'm out on my F156.
Wide isn't some folks cup of tea, that's okay. But ripping on one of these things all over the lake provides plenty of challenge and thrills. No, you can't jump them but it's much easier to scoot 4 miles upwind and then turn it way off for the sleigh ride. Check out old threads for some fun adventures on Starts and Novas.
Having a decent amount of experience on a super wide begginer board, and a smaller beginner board (N-Trance), I will say that the N-Trance is much more versatile and fun to sail though. In sub-planing conditions, kick down the center board, and it will be faster and point higher than the Start. When the picks up, put up the centerboard and you have a board that feels like 'windsurfing board' and not a hovering barn door. It certainly jibes much easier as well.
So while a Start is certainly a stable platform to learn on, and is a somewhat capable light wind planer in the hands an experienced sailor, it is just as not as versatile, nor as fun as a moderately shaped board (again, the N-Trance).
The N-Trance in the wide version is 90 cm (there is an 80 cm version but if I were learning, I'd go wide). So, it's still pretty doggone wide. It's also a generation newer than the Start. Sounds like a great board. I'm not disagreeing with your analysis but just the premise that, as in the old days, you learn on a "beginner" board then dispense with it after 6 months. I'd say that the Start would be more likely to plane first and justify putting a 9-11 meter sail on it. I know that's maybe not your cup of tea but that can fill a valid niche/part of the quiver of an intermediate/advanced sailor. Also, when it came out, the Start was literally half the price of an F board with about 90% of the fun; all it needed was the proper fin.
A lot of us have gotten a ton of mileage out of boards that were supposed to be "beginner" boards. We've come a long way when you learned on an O'Brien and then sold it as quickly as possible.
Webguy, I know you love that board and it symbolizes a lot of joy for you and your family-- and THAT is really what this sport is all about. So, don't take the following personally. I'm just using this as an opportunity to say my piece on beginner boards.
What nitrojiber is saying is that the N-Trance, as well as 2 or 3 other "first" boards --but definitely not all of them that are out there--, easily do everything the START will do, and then do some of those things even better. One exception: yes, the START in it's 100cm or 110m wide incarnation is more stable on the width axis. You can stand on it and pay less attention without falling off. But, I think if you're under 230lbs or so and under 6'3" tall or so, and there is not some physiological issue going on, such as damage to your inner-ear canal, you absolutely do not need any width over 90cm, and in most cases, nothing over 80cm. Really. I believe that. I teach on 78 cm wide HiFLy's and I get all kinds of folks, I mean ALL kinds, and 3 to 6 in a class. Once I take them off the anchored tether, it ain't never an issue. I've had about 30 students so far this year. Board stability not a problem for a single one of them, well before the end of the 5 to 6 hour lesson. For most, it's not an issue after the first hour and 1/2. I have one 90cm N-Trance rigged and ready at my lessons and I put each student on that, too, so they can see what a typical "first board" feels like. No one ever reacts, "Oh thank god for this big board; NOW I can do this." Starboard recognized the "issues" with the super -super-wide concept themselves and in '05 reduced the width of the largest START by 9cm to 101cm. Why do that? Isn't 110 cm great? And why did they make a START Medium (90cm) and Small (86cm) in '06?
Here's why: Their competitors began making better "first" boards. These boards weren't so silly wide, and they were lighter underfoot, and -- oh-my-gosh-- they were LONGER, too. Huh? What's up with that? To put all the floatability (volume) you want in that super-duper 100cm+ wide shape means the board has got to be very, very short in order to not have too much weight... and there's the problem. Not only is that "extra" width quickly nothing but wasted bulk, especially for the little-ler kids whose inherent balance ability is high -- that very short width leads to highly frustrating sail handling issues for the beginner. (Not for the experienced boardsailor such as yourself, though. You and I don't even notice it if we are sailing the board.) That short length axis requires precise sail handling -- the sail position "window" is very narrow to maintain an across-the-wind saling angle. Any minor off-perfect sail position and the board pivots instantly to downwind or upwind. Mistral, Naish, F2, and AHD began marketing this extra beam length and "reasonable" width right up front and it changed things for the better.
I see all this so clearly at the annual ABC LTW clinic where we have 4 or 5 different beginner board models on the water at once. The super short older NOVA's and STARTS don't have people falling off of them - but then again, neither do the other ones after the first 1/2 dozen uphauls - -but they do carry their riders downwind or stall out upwind much quicker.
You might be right: The beloved START might plane a wee bit earlier with a big, big sail in the hands of an experienced sailor. But for the beginner, if you're buying new, don't buy a bunch of extra board bulk, weight, and drag on the water jsut so you won't fall off the first 2 hours you use it. Get something that's potentially lighter underfoot (as well as getting it on and off the darn car top), will take you further in the sport before you have to buy again, and delivers a more direct feel of wind SURF-ing even when your skills have not gotten that far along.
Chuck at Whitecap Windsurfing
706-833-9463
Chuck Hardin
Whitecap Windsurfing, Inc.
c:706-833-WIND (9463)
That is the comment that I (with good humor) disagree with. Is the Start or Nova the perfect board? No, of course not. But my point is, again, that an experienced sailor can have a blast on one. An experienced sailor can do something on them that few other boards will do.
The Start does the 90% of what an F board does at less than half the price. And, I'd say that unless you really have the cajones, having the additional weight of a Start trying to carry a 7.5 downwind with wind in the low 20s would be a plus, not a minus for most people. Does an F board do what the N-Trance does? Does the N-Trance carry a 70 cm so you can go way upwind with a 9.5? They are different boards.
I'm not terribly worried about that "windsurfing feel" or carving a jibe because most of the time when using a Start, there are few to no white caps. The Start made me a better sailor, even though already an intermediate and got me out in conditions that I couldn't do what I wanted to do with other boards. 9.5s aren't your cup of tea but for those of us who must plane and really can't make a road trip - it beats sitting on the beach and whining.
Again, the distinction I want to make is that an intermediate can be challenged, enjoy and use a board like the Start/Nova.
Not to muddy the water, but there is a big difference between a Start and a Nova. The Nova is shaped like Bic's Formula board, and is now my light air board. With my 8.5 sail and my 65cm fin, it is alot of fun. While both boards can be used by beginners, if you dont need the extra volume, I would recommend the Nova.
Also, Starboard now makes the RIO that is beginner oriented, with padded deck and retractable dagger, and VERY competitively priced. And there are alot of other very good boards available.
Gene
Gene Mathis
Starboard Start now available for free due to the percieved value of the forum.
There is video avaible from Starboard of Tonki Franz from Bonair looping on a Start. I have never seen anyone do that on a Nova
Guys, this is all very interesting, but it may be pretty academic. If the lake keeps dropping like it has been, well be arguing about what kind of landsailors are best to use in it before long.
What happens in a black hole stays in a black hole.
I failed to mention the my Start is available for free but you must purchase the Epic bag which is for sale for $475.00, products not sold seperatly. The board bag is also great for a Piano case, coffin for two, sleeping bag for two, widescreen TV cover, and your Mini Cooper or VW Beatle will alos fit in it, therefore its make a great calapsable garage.
Danny -- call Andrew. If he can get his Cooper with his gear on top into the bag, I bet you've got a sale! Then he could ship it on the airlines when he travels to have the whole rig ready to drive away from the airport to the beach.
May your water be smooth and your winds be swift.
Now that I see the qoute the Webguy is directly responding to -- I'll back him 100%. Even a big ol' monster board like the Start still has a place in an intermediate/advanced sailor's quiver. It is still a heck of a lot more versatile than beginner boards of the past...
People seem to get a little hung up on width when it comes to stability. Stability also involves deck height above the water and how the volume is distributed on the board. A near sinker can be almost as stable as a high floater if the volume is distributed correctly and the board is thin.
The rail outline plays a big part when it comes to new sailors maintaining a heading. Rounding up is a problem for new sailors and short boards without a straight rail line tend to make it worse for them.
Board weight can also be a problem for new sailors. When the board excellerates too slow they either get slammed or turn loose of the sail. Some of the big wide boards are heavy and have a lot of drag. This causes the new sailor to have big problems when they start sailing in wind.
A flat rocker also causes the board to accellerate faster. The big scooping noses on some of the wider boards act as a bull dozer in the water causing the new sailor to turn loose or get slammed.
All these factors come in to play for a new sailor and they aren't even noticed by an experienced sailor. I am unconventional (wierd) in most of my ideas concerning gear. I say if you enjoy sailing what you got, sail it. But for the new people, boards that allow them to progress to plaining conditions quickly are the ones they should use. That is when they get hooked. They don't get hooked standing on a moving boat dock or being thrown over the bow. Get them on a high volume short board or a lower volume transition board quick and you will have them hooked.
Yep, I am swayed also by the evenly reasoned analysis of Webguy, as usual. There's not a perfect board for all situataions and this glorious sport encompasses so many styles of sailing that there is a place for all these designs. That's why I still include positive analysis of 4 to 6 diferent first board models in in my "First Boards and Gear" page on my website each year. I try to give an objective opinion of strengths and trade-offs on each one. You'll see the START is included there, as it has been every year since it came out. However, I have dropped a couple of other fairly well-known models from that page, primarily because of the shortness issue. I just see those causing too many problems for beginners.
I also think Alan hits the nail on the head in his point by point review of board characteristics and stability issues. Good discussion.
Chuck Hardin
Whitecap Windsurfing, Inc.
c:706-833-WIND (9463)