Just thinking about that last time I really pushed hard on a foil I hit 22-23kts. And that was with a 9.0.
Need the right conditions here. Weeds have been really bad the summer and they have been killing speed.
The poor guys on the Chesapeake have been battling flukey winds and lots of fish this summer. One friend has taken to sailing an older, beater board instead of risking his newest boards because of the frequency of the fish strikes and resulting crashes.
22-23 kts is commendable. I think I've peaked around 21 and that was with a 7.0 in a course race (15-25+mph winds). I'm not that fast...
But
Will Windfoilers ever match Windsurfers ?
Sorry been reading too much Seabreeze.
My ‘Guess’ is no
As soon as I figure out how to break 23kts I would say, for me, my chances of going faster on a foil than a fin is a lot higher on an average day out in florida, IF I use a race foil. If I use a freeride foil, absolutely not. I'm somewhere around 24-25kts max on a fin. And it takes me a lot more wind than for when I hit 20-23 on a race foil.
Fin on butter smooth courses like Prince of Speed and Luderitz will be hard to beat for a long time. The drag is so much lower for a fin in those conditions. I think as Pozo showed, in real world conditons 90-95% of us sail (ie under 30 kts), foil wins out especially when you start adding turns and courses that aren't just a broad reach. For me, it's pretty much the same. I'm not necessarily faster on a foil but the more turns are involved, the better my avg speed vs fins.
Honestly, didn't think we'd get here when I started my journey. I just thought foiling was cool. It was so quiet, I didn't need big sails and I had so many more days on the water. I think a lot of foilers would shut up about speed if we hadn't spent the last five years being told by some critics that we were "slow" or "boring". Nobody started winging because it was the quickest thing on the beach but that doesn't seem to have held it back, either.
And, I think for almost everyone here, it's not a My Team vs Your Team thing. Fin is still fun from the longboard all the way to a 70ish l. board in an absolute stink of a blow.
Yeah for speed records it seems like foil is going to be behind fins perpetually without a big technology leap.
I've thought about it, as the wings need to get smaller for less drag, but you still have the fuse to deal with. Then I came up with insane ideas like an optimized planing surface below/combined with a foil. I am not convinced it's physical and it would need speed fins below it...and who knows if it would be controllable. It'd be like a ski with a fin that was assisted foil assisted to get to planing speed. Or a supercritical (cavitating) foil which I believe the boaters are more familiar with, and it would probably look at lot different to what we have now, and still hard to control?
And, I think for almost everyone here, it's not a My Team vs Your Team thing. Fin is still fun from the longboard all the way to a 70ish l. board in an absolute stink of a blow.
True we are one big happy family but good hearted rivalry is one of the reason we have advanced this far.
Yeah for speed records it seems like foil is going to be behind fins perpetually without a big technology leap.
I've thought about it, as the wings need to get smaller for less drag, but you still have the fuse to deal with. Then I came up with insane ideas like an optimized planing surface below/combined with a foil. I am not convinced it's physical and it would need speed fins below it...and who knows if it would be controllable. It'd be like a ski with a fin that was assisted foil assisted to get to planing speed. Or a supercritical (cavitating) foil which I believe the boaters are more familiar with, and it would probably look at lot different to what we have now, and still hard to control?
And the mast. No matter how small you make the wing, you still need to drag a good bit of mast through the water.
Yeah for speed records it seems like foil is going to be behind fins perpetually without a big technology leap.
I've thought about it, as the wings need to get smaller for less drag, but you still have the fuse to deal with. Then I came up with insane ideas like an optimized planing surface below/combined with a foil. I am not convinced it's physical and it would need speed fins below it...and who knows if it would be controllable. It'd be like a ski with a fin that was assisted foil assisted to get to planing speed. Or a supercritical (cavitating) foil which I believe the boaters are more familiar with, and it would probably look at lot different to what we have now, and still hard to control?
And the mast. No matter how small you make the wing, you still need to drag a good bit of mast through the water.
Hence the nutty idea of an optimized planing surface with a fin at the bottom (which I don't think is practical).
Yeah for speed records it seems like foil is going to be behind fins perpetually without a big technology leap.
I've thought about it, as the wings need to get smaller for less drag, but you still have the fuse to deal with. Then I came up with insane ideas like an optimized planing surface below/combined with a foil. I am not convinced it's physical and it would need speed fins below it...and who knows if it would be controllable. It'd be like a ski with a fin that was assisted foil assisted to get to planing speed. Or a supercritical (cavitating) foil which I believe the boaters are more familiar with, and it would probably look at lot different to what we have now, and still hard to control?
And the mast. No matter how small you make the wing, you still need to drag a good bit of mast through the water.
Hence the nutty idea of an optimized planing surface with a fin at the bottom (which I don't think is practical).
Ah, sorry, didn't understand. So, basically, the windfoil equivalent to this? (Not saying that there might be something to the idea but first thing that came to mind.) I think supercavitating foils will be necessary. In the big sailboat world, there seems to be a hard speed barrier around 51-53 kts for foiling whether AC or SailGP.
That’s Freaking Fast !
If I ever hit my 20knot barrier my speed probably won’t be the only thing broken.
Alan
Just thinking about that last time I really pushed hard on a foil I hit 22-23kts. And that was with a 9.0.
Need the right conditions here. Weeds have been really bad the summer and they have been killing speed.
The poor guys on the Chesapeake have been battling flukey winds and lots of fish this summer. One friend has taken to sailing an older, beater board instead of risking his newest boards because of the frequency of the fish strikes and resulting crashes.
22-23 kts is commendable. I think I've peaked around 21 and that was with a 7.0 in a course race (15-25+mph winds). I'm not that fast...
But
Will Windfoilers ever match Windsurfers ?
Sorry been reading too much Seabreeze.
My ‘Guess’ is no
Alan
As soon as I figure out how to break 23kts I would say, for me, my chances of going faster on a foil than a fin is a lot higher on an average day out in florida, IF I use a race foil. If I use a freeride foil, absolutely not. I'm somewhere around 24-25kts max on a fin. And it takes me a lot more wind than for when I hit 20-23 on a race foil.
Fin on butter smooth courses like Prince of Speed and Luderitz will be hard to beat for a long time. The drag is so much lower for a fin in those conditions. I think as Pozo showed, in real world conditons 90-95% of us sail (ie under 30 kts), foil wins out especially when you start adding turns and courses that aren't just a broad reach. For me, it's pretty much the same. I'm not necessarily faster on a foil but the more turns are involved, the better my avg speed vs fins.
Honestly, didn't think we'd get here when I started my journey. I just thought foiling was cool. It was so quiet, I didn't need big sails and I had so many more days on the water. I think a lot of foilers would shut up about speed if we hadn't spent the last five years being told by some critics that we were "slow" or "boring". Nobody started winging because it was the quickest thing on the beach but that doesn't seem to have held it back, either.
And, I think for almost everyone here, it's not a My Team vs Your Team thing. Fin is still fun from the longboard all the way to a 70ish l. board in an absolute stink of a blow.
I meant in speed records.
What the fin record now, 56knots ?
Alan
Yeah for speed records it seems like foil is going to be behind fins perpetually without a big technology leap.
I've thought about it, as the wings need to get smaller for less drag, but you still have the fuse to deal with. Then I came up with insane ideas like an optimized planing surface below/combined with a foil. I am not convinced it's physical and it would need speed fins below it...and who knows if it would be controllable. It'd be like a ski with a fin that was assisted foil assisted to get to planing speed. Or a supercritical (cavitating) foil which I believe the boaters are more familiar with, and it would probably look at lot different to what we have now, and still hard to control?
True we are one big happy family but good hearted rivalry is one of the reason we have advanced this far.
Alan
aeroegnr
And the mast. No matter how small you make the wing, you still need to drag a good bit of mast through the water.
Hence the nutty idea of an optimized planing surface with a fin at the bottom (which I don't think is practical).
Ah, sorry, didn't understand. So, basically, the windfoil equivalent to this?
(Not saying that there might be something to the idea but first thing that came to mind.) I think supercavitating foils will be necessary. In the big sailboat world, there seems to be a hard speed barrier around 51-53 kts for foiling whether AC or SailGP.
Hahaha yes! That's it.