Wind Foil Jibe Help

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gene_mathis
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Wind Foil Jibe Help

I'm getting tired of not making my Wind Foil Jibes. So how about a little help here (and I mean a little, a sentence or two.) What was your aha moment? What did you try that really seemed to help?

Example: Go in on a broad reach and come out on a broad reach, speed helps.

Keep the tips short so we can scan thru them before going out and you don't have to be a Jibe Master to give tips.

Thanks,

Gene

Gene Mathis

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Re: Wind Foil Jibe Help

Excellent idea, Gene! Good
One thing I can offer (but it's still hard to make myself do) is look for a gust to jibe in. It's so easy to outrun the wind and get backwinded. That's where things get wonky for me.

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Re: Wind Foil Jibe Help

Keep your knees together and your feet real far apart at 90 degrees. ???

You just got too much stuff.

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webguy
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Re: Wind Foil Jibe Help
moredownhaul wrote:

Keep your knees together and your feet real far apart at 90 degrees. ???

You just got too much stuff.

Before I figured out Alan was kidding, I almost hurt myself.

Here's another tip: Sell all your gear and take up fishing.

Gene

Gene Mathis

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webguy
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Re: Wind Foil Jibe Help
Quote:
Keep your knees in tight...
You could get real fancy on the footwork (skip to :40 for the actual step-by-step):
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webguy
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Re: Wind Foil Jibe Help

1 - Chris above nailed the first one - short of a gust that's about to kill you, jibe in the gusts. Don't jibe only when you run out of water, you have to find the biggest gust you can stand and jibe in that. It will seem absolutely mad 0.5 seconds before you do it. Trust me, the wind will shut off as soon as you begin the carve. BUT if you are overpowered, make a long, wide carve. You have plenty of energy to make a big arc which gives you time to take things slowly. If there isn't one, bear off and try to get going as fast as you can. Do not make a sharp carve - those are for light air.

Gene asked for bullet points so I'll do my best from here on out. A lot of stuff here so focus on what part you feel is breaking down.

2 - If your board does not naturally fly level when you step across to initiate the jibe, adjust something. If it wants to touch down, for example, raise boom (should be shoulder to chin high), move mast base back and/or move front straps.
3 - Spot the exit through the window of your sail. Don't take your eyes off this spot until you are exiting.
4 - Bend knees and extend front arm. Open the back hand. Then open the back hand some more. Keep opening as you carve around.
5 - Important - swing the rig from the inside of the turn to the outside of the turn. Like really move it. The harness lines should start at one shoulder and end at the other. If the sail doesn't move across, bad things will happen. In light air, you'll get backwinded straight off the board. If it's windier, you'll get stuck going straight downwind and not completing the turn.
6 - Move the front hand right by the mast for the flip. If it's not there, the flip will pull you off the board. The bigger the sail, the more important
7 - Flip it a touch earlier than you think you should if you grew up doing step jibes. I'd have to yell at myself to let loose of the stupid thing. You won't fall off even though it feels like it.
8 - Do not look at the sail during the flip. Just don't. Some of you have been windsurfing 20-30 years. Trust me, your body knows where the boom and mast are. They don't need help. You have to keep looking at the exit to complete the turn.
9 - Stop carving by flattening the board when you get to the broad reach on the other side. The further you carve, the more energy you lose.
10 - It's prettier to not touch down at all but it's more important just to exit with speed. Nobody likes to pump and getting through a jibe at speed is the easiest way to avoid that.
11 - You don't have to put the new foot directly into the strap but it helps. It will eventually come naturally. However, if you step in front of the straps, it's game over. Having both feet between the straps and the board flying level without you really doing much is why #2 is so important. It's easier to do with a smaller board. Wider boards are a bit trickier so that you don't overcarve when you put the new foot in the strap.

Okay, there is an aha moment. It's the sail sweep from inside to out. The feeling of that extended front arm, the bent knees and the sail sweeping across the body. It's not a feeling you get much in a planing jibe but it really helps complete a foiling jibe.

I'll save my "are you using too short harness lines?" discussion for another thread.


Full screen: https://giphy.com/gifs/inNvaHvxX1VKrabqwC/fullscreen

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FoilDodo
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Re: Wind Foil Jibe Help

Me, again. Two more things
- pick a wing of appropriate size. Smaller wings need more entry speed to make it through. My iqfoil needs 17 mph; AFS probably 15-16. My little 725 needs 19 or it falls straight off the wing mid jibe.
- find a flat water spot with 15 mph wind. I made a lot of progress down at West Point and especially one session on Hartwell with Langdon (closest to a single aha session). I've had a couple good east days at van Pugh during the week.

edit: slow version of above gif

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Langdon
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aeroegnr
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Re: Wind Foil Jibe Help

Tried to make a gif of this to make it easier to view but the jibe at 0:43 is a good example of the rig sweep to the outside of the turn. Even with a small sail (I think this is a 4.2), it's noticeable.

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Re: Wind Foil Jibe Help

Yesterday's experience sailing a 780ish cm2 wing reminded me that success in pulling off those first jibes depends a good bit on wing selection. imho, depending on weight, pulling off a jibe with a 900-1500cm2 wing will likely be easier for many than something outside of that range.

Smaller wings jibe on the same principles but need so much more entry speed to stay flying through the whole maneuver. A while back, I benchmarked some of my wings. The entry speed required for me on my big AFS wing is somewhere around 15-16 mph. My IQFoil needs about 17 and the Starboard slalom 725 requires about 19. I kind of felt like I needed close to 18 (not scientific) yesterday to get through.

Too big wings have the opposite issue especially underpowered. They have too much drag and just refuse to fly all the way through especially in a wider turn. If you have enough wind, swell or power it's not as much an issue but some may find flying a big wing less pleasant in those circumstances to begin with. Sharper turns help but limit time when all the steps haven't become second nature.

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aeroegnr
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Re: Wind Foil Jibe Help
webguy wrote:

Yesterday's experience sailing a 780ish cm2 wing reminded me that success in pulling off those first jibes depends a good bit on wing selection. imho, depending on weight, pulling off a jibe with a 900-1500cm2 wing will likely be easier for many than something outside of that range.

Smaller wings jibe on the same principles but need so much more entry speed to stay flying through the whole maneuver. A while back, I benchmarked some of my wings. The entry speed required for me on my big AFS wing is somewhere around 15-16 mph. My IQFoil needs about 17 and the Starboard slalom 725 requires about 19. I kind of felt like I needed close to 18 (not scientific) yesterday to get through.

Too big wings have the opposite issue especially underpowered. They have too much drag and just refuse to fly all the way through especially in a wider turn. If you have enough wind, swell or power it's not as much an issue but some may find flying a big wing less pleasant in those circumstances to begin with. Sharper turns help but limit time when all the steps haven't become second nature.

I'll have to get better data next time I try. The phantasm 926 stays flying much slower than the 900iqfoil, but it's closer to 1250cm2. Kind of want to plot my foil jibe speeds through the jibe but it'll take me pulling data and I'll have to figure out how to do that efficiently.

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Re: Wind Foil Jibe Help
aeroegnr wrote:
webguy wrote:

Yesterday's experience sailing a 780ish cm2 wing reminded me that success in pulling off those first jibes depends a good bit on wing selection. imho, depending on weight, pulling off a jibe with a 900-1500cm2 wing will likely be easier for many than something outside of that range.

Smaller wings jibe on the same principles but need so much more entry speed to stay flying through the whole maneuver. A while back, I benchmarked some of my wings. The entry speed required for me on my big AFS wing is somewhere around 15-16 mph. My IQFoil needs about 17 and the Starboard slalom 725 requires about 19. I kind of felt like I needed close to 18 (not scientific) yesterday to get through.

Too big wings have the opposite issue especially underpowered. They have too much drag and just refuse to fly all the way through especially in a wider turn. If you have enough wind, swell or power it's not as much an issue but some may find flying a big wing less pleasant in those circumstances to begin with. Sharper turns help but limit time when all the steps haven't become second nature.

I'll have to get better data next time I try. The phantasm 926 stays flying much slower than the 900iqfoil, but it's closer to 1250cm2. Kind of want to plot my foil jibe speeds through the jibe but it'll take me pulling data and I'll have to figure out how to do that efficiently.

I'm not such a clever man. My Android app, Windsport Tracker, calls out my speed every two seconds. I use an old phone in a waterproof bag in a pocket of the back of my impact vest. https://www.windsporttracker.com Haven't benchmarked the AFS F800 recently - will try to do both it and the F700 (1080 and 770 cm2).

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Re: Wind Foil Jibe Help
webguy wrote:
aeroegnr wrote:
webguy wrote:

Yesterday's experience sailing a 780ish cm2 wing reminded me that success in pulling off those first jibes depends a good bit on wing selection. imho, depending on weight, pulling off a jibe with a 900-1500cm2 wing will likely be easier for many than something outside of that range.

Smaller wings jibe on the same principles but need so much more entry speed to stay flying through the whole maneuver. A while back, I benchmarked some of my wings. The entry speed required for me on my big AFS wing is somewhere around 15-16 mph. My IQFoil needs about 17 and the Starboard slalom 725 requires about 19. I kind of felt like I needed close to 18 (not scientific) yesterday to get through.

Too big wings have the opposite issue especially underpowered. They have too much drag and just refuse to fly all the way through especially in a wider turn. If you have enough wind, swell or power it's not as much an issue but some may find flying a big wing less pleasant in those circumstances to begin with. Sharper turns help but limit time when all the steps haven't become second nature.

I'll have to get better data next time I try. The phantasm 926 stays flying much slower than the 900iqfoil, but it's closer to 1250cm2. Kind of want to plot my foil jibe speeds through the jibe but it'll take me pulling data and I'll have to figure out how to do that efficiently.

I'm not such a clever man. My Android app, Windsport Tracker, calls out my speed every two seconds. I use an old phone in a waterproof bag in a pocket of the back of my impact vest. https://www.windsporttracker.com Haven't benchmarked the AFS F800 recently - will try to do both it and the F700 (1080 and 770 cm2).

The watch I have has tons of data, the problem is getting the speed/direction during just the jibe.

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Re: Wind Foil Jibe Help
aeroegnr wrote:
webguy wrote:
aeroegnr wrote:
webguy wrote:

Yesterday's experience sailing a 780ish cm2 wing reminded me that success in pulling off those first jibes depends a good bit on wing selection. imho, depending on weight, pulling off a jibe with a 900-1500cm2 wing will likely be easier for many than something outside of that range.

Smaller wings jibe on the same principles but need so much more entry speed to stay flying through the whole maneuver. A while back, I benchmarked some of my wings. The entry speed required for me on my big AFS wing is somewhere around 15-16 mph. My IQFoil needs about 17 and the Starboard slalom 725 requires about 19. I kind of felt like I needed close to 18 (not scientific) yesterday to get through.

Too big wings have the opposite issue especially underpowered. They have too much drag and just refuse to fly all the way through especially in a wider turn. If you have enough wind, swell or power it's not as much an issue but some may find flying a big wing less pleasant in those circumstances to begin with. Sharper turns help but limit time when all the steps haven't become second nature.

I'll have to get better data next time I try. The phantasm 926 stays flying much slower than the 900iqfoil, but it's closer to 1250cm2. Kind of want to plot my foil jibe speeds through the jibe but it'll take me pulling data and I'll have to figure out how to do that efficiently.

I'm not such a clever man. My Android app, Windsport Tracker, calls out my speed every two seconds. I use an old phone in a waterproof bag in a pocket of the back of my impact vest. https://www.windsporttracker.com Haven't benchmarked the AFS F800 recently - will try to do both it and the F700 (1080 and 770 cm2).

The watch I have has tons of data, the problem is getting the speed/direction during just the jibe.

Have you ever mucked about with this? https://ecwindfest.org/GPS/GPSSpeedreaderHelp.html It's boardsurfr's gps java program. He, unlike me, is a clever fellow.

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Re: Wind Foil Jibe Help

Hmm I just tried it but for some reason it's not reading the angles right, so I see the plot but can't make a polar or make sense of the headings. Just gives me nada. I may message him.

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Re: Wind Foil Jibe Help

fwiw, what it looks like for me. I was using an sbp file from Windsport Tracker. For other readers here, you can move the cross hairs on the track and pinpoint a specific jibe. Speeds are in kts. It also generates some nice stats, too.

Yeah, I'm barely faster than a mall walker. Blush

Hope you can get it sorted. Pretty nice tool he created.

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Re: Wind Foil Jibe Help

Yeah it may be the app I'm using. It may not have any heading information recorded. I'll try another app. Looks like the output doesn't even have a heading from the app I've been using.

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webguy