Virus Hybrid Foil

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Virus Hybrid Foil
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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

The link wants me to log into Faceplant but I am not a member of that exclusive society. Is this like some sort of attachment to your existing fin or a different design which places the wing higher up on the mast?

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Here's the text (w/o pictures) -

It's been a while... but we were working on something totally new that is going to change your windsurfing experience. We are at the very end of testing and developing performance to the next level. Fully demountable wing will make it easy to pack and change sizes to smaller/bigger one.

Early planning and jibing hasn't been that easy ever before ! More surface underneath the water let you "foil" easily through choppy water. You can forget about catching a spin out, it won't happen again Smile

You will have this kind of "foil" feeling which is pretty special but you can still push the board as much as you want and it will fit your current equipment, no doubts about that.

No flex option because all the lift that normally comes from stiffness, now is delivered from the wing. Basically it's working like an airplane wing with winglets. Winglets are set downwards, thats why all the air bubbles that are creating under the board and cause spin outs are now gone.

Hope you guys like it, let us now your first impressions Smile

We will have them available very soon so stay tuned !

Webpage -
http://www.thevirus.pl/

Gene

Gene Mathis

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Thanks Gene. Says will fit your existing equipment, but not completely clear to me whether that just means they will make masts for Power or Tuttle boxes, or that it fits on your current fin.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Randy, 99% sure that this is a single unit rather than an add on to a conventional foil. The engineering challenge is to mate the horizontal wing to a fin in a structurally sound manner without a ton of drag and provide an attachment where you can tune the wing angle. Most good large fins aren't appropriate for a retrofit because they have a certain amount of flex designed in and I think that these fins have the opposite - stiff as possible to keep the wing stable.

Cost is estimated at 380 euro. I'd contemplated something like this for a while before plunging full on to the "f" world.

Quote:

Basically our concept was to make (invent) something that is in between foil and a normal fin for affordable price. Foil feeling is pretty amazing but not everyone can simply afford that. This solution delivers a foil feeling which is generated from our asymmetrical wing which provides a lot of lift force (about 6 kilo with current wing size). The idea was to start planning as early as it's possible, it definitely lets you start planning earlier as there is a little bit more volume underneath the board thanks to wing. While we were testing there were some sideeffects that we didn't actually mean to achieve like, easier to make a jibe fully planning, absolutely no spin outs, super stability and certainly flying a little bit above the water on choppy conditions. The faster you go the more lift you get that's how it works. Lift force usually starts to work with speed of 6 knots (with foil it's probably the same) so when you start pumping and pushing on the board volume generated from the wing kind of starts lifting the board. If you have any more questions would love to hear them.

From this, it looks like it provides about 15 lbs (freedom units) of lift force. I guess, alternatively, for 380 euro less, I could eat fewer cheeseburgers. Biggrin

All kidding aside, with the technical challenge of foiling being what it is right now, I could see a lot of these getting sold.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Well Webster, I have pretty good recollection of you saying a while back that someone should develop a sort partial foil that got you planning quicker even if didn't lift you out of the water. You're a visionary. Yes 3

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

IMAGE(<a href="http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/99/995e537c3585ce664981911326281781af45ed4586049df06d9e77af02fb8370.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/99/995e537c3585ce664981911326281781af45ed4586049df06d9e77af02fb8370.jpg</a>)

--- The Arrogant Jerk: Crabby and irritable since 1998.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

From 1972 Popular Mechanics Shok

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
FoilDudê wrote:

From 1972 Popular Mechanics Shok

It seems that no matter how advanced the technology, there was a working prototype in Popular Mechanics in B&W. This, apparently, is the chosen method of messaging by travellers from the future.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

My son has been using a US made foil fin this summer in Outer banks NC. All the advantages that the polish company says I confirm. But there is more. My son just started windsurfing this summer using 160 liter Seatrend narrow US Made 16 years old board, EZZY 6.5 sail. Without the foil fin he looks like a beginner. With the foil fin he looks like the only person surfing - all other windsurfers look like just trying to windsurf. It is because the foil makes you plane much sooner. I measured 9 knot when he was on fast plane speed while all the other windsurfers could not get on plane. The place in NC is called Canadian Hole - the best place to windsrf in the US as Canadians say - many good windsurfers are there. The foil we got makes you the best particularly when the wind is light so nobody gets on plane , but only you. On the stronger wind you do not feel the transition from displacement lift to the planing lift - the transition to planing goes very smooth - no need to pump to get on plane. While on high speed you feel much less force on hands because of significantly lower water resistance (drug). It looks very unusual when you do not need to lean much to balance the force of the wind on sail and you go very fast. I am not a good windsurfer but I feel it like very little effort to go high speed. Acceleration is very fast. probably because no transition to planning. You go faster compare to kite boarders. May be you can go as fast as Kite foiling but with a larger sail, that we are not good with 9.5 yet and kites use 17 sq.m. Jumping on waves is much smoother and feels much more stable. Tacking feels like the board goes straight against the wind like these old mistral boards. You can go much sharper up wind. It is like you have a center board in addition to a long fin. The depth of that Made in USA hydrofoil fin is only 10 inch and it gives a better upwind angle compare to long board with the centerboard. I noticed that you can go up wing 45 deg without noticeable drifting even at low speed. My son says that it is much easier to windsurf. I noticed it too. It feels like you have a solid support under your feet and the small board does not sink like it used to without the foil. We have used it at maximum of 20 knots wind and you go very very fast at 20 knots wind. Without this Made in USA foil fin we would not be able to windsurf at 20 knots during out first windsurfing summer. I think skilled sailors will find more. The main what we found is an addiction. If you had ever had a foil fin you will never go back to your regular fin. We have changed fins to regular just to compare at different wind conditions and the regular fin was always disliked very much. It was disappointing to watch these poor windsurfers riding these regular fins while you fly by them smooth and fast with very little wake behind. I will post a video on youtube later so you can see. I do not see these fins for sale. Our foil fin is from my coworker we worked at Boeing together and I am retired and he does his composite business at frpgear.com doing some projects to aerospace and had a similar foil project for NASA and simply applied the concept to a windsurfer. I am not sure it it will ever go to production because the market is low unless somebody can suggest how to sale dozens of these so to keep the production cost down. But for the personal use to be the fastest surfer on Outer Banks it is a very good toy hidden under your board. BTW, my fin-foil does not look the fin foil posted picture by webguy. That Polish design looks like it has room for improvement from hydrodynamic prospective. I have a similar fin-foil and it is very good but not as good as the the best I have. I think it is not just a foil that makes the advantage. It is a combination of several elements resulting in efficient hydrodynamic system. The foil Polish foil as shown on the picture will push the board out of water so much at high wind so my board nose ditches into water. Interesting to see the final Polish production and compare to the US Made in garage. Yes 3

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

You might try listing it as a Kickstarter project. Or perhaps sell it as a kit.

In the meantime if you want any volunteers to test prototypes sign me up and I'm sure there would be others around here as well.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
Randy wrote:

You might try listing it as a Kickstarter project. Or perhaps sell it as a kit.

In the meantime if you want any volunteers to test prototypes sign me up and I'm sure there would be others around here as well.

It may be a good idea to get it tested by someone else to confirm our initial experience.
What kind of fin box is on your board? I may have a foil fin with tuttle box. Or you can give me your old or broken fin with usable head so I can use it to make a foil that fits your board.
What kind of board?
At what min wind velocity you can get on plane. I will have a better idea how to design it. Or, I may have a used foil.
Thank you for the offer.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
spiralbevel wrote:

Randy wrote:

You might try listing it as a Kickstarter project. Or perhaps sell it as a kit.

In the meantime if you want any volunteers to test prototypes sign me up and I'm sure there would be others around here as well.

It may be a good idea to get it tested by someone else to confirm our initial experience.
What kind of fin box is on your board? I may have a foil fin with tuttle box. Or you can give me your old or broken fin with usable head so I can use it to make a foil that fits your board.
What kind of board?
At what min wind velocity you can get on plane. I will have a better idea how to design it. Or, I may have a used foil.
Thank you for the offer.

I have one of the early Starboard Go boards. It has a deep tuttle, but it will work with a regular tuttle. I use a 7.3 for light wind. I think it would plane around 10kt. I weigh 136 so it doesn't take much wind.

I have a video of the board in this thread.

https://windsurfatlanta.org/content/photos-saturday-9-9-17-9917

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
Randy wrote:

I have one of the early Starboard Go boards. It has a deep tuttle, but it will work with a regular tuttle. I use a 7.3 for light wind. I think it would plane around 10kt. I weigh 136 so it doesn't take much wind.

I have a video of the board in this thread.

https://windsurfatlanta.org/content/photos-saturday-9-9-17-9917

I have a fin foil with deep tuttle for you to test. It is not the best we tested but you will be see the difference. Here are some videos if you can see ho the windsurfer goes with foil. My son is a light as you and with 6.5 2012 EZZY ge goes on plane before 9knots. But we may have different definitions of planing. On the videos I call planing when the board moves on the very top surface of water so you can see the board all the way flat skimming nicely and looking fast and speedy. I think the scientific definition of planing is when the hydrodynamic lift is as high as the weight of the vessel - this does not mean a nice good looking surfing. If you email me you delivery address I can ship you the part to try.
https://youtu.be/KW8V8ioMEno
https://youtu.be/TaNV1fHwDJs
https://youtu.be/1LxGR_0UDFg
https://youtu.be/efUt6S1QW9s
https://youtu.be/DwNXS3XwA6o

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Great! I will send you a private message with my address. Anxious to try it.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Stepan,
I worked on an email to you this evening but I need to edit it as it eventually became a long essay. If you do send something this way, I can get with Randy and we can do so testing together with foils, formula boards, etc.

Just a few things very quickly
- if your son is about Randy's size, the equivalent sail size for a larger male windsurfer might be 9.0 or more.
- The measurements I saw in most of the videos were in offshore winds and even with the wind meter downwind of you. Those probably aren't dependable readings because of surrounding obstacles to the wind.
- The appeal of foils isn't speed. As mentioned in that link about fins and drag I sent, foils hit a speed barrier much lower than planing boards. The more you have underwater, the lower your maximum. Foils just get you on top of the water with less power so you can use less sail and/or less wind - plus it's amazingly smooth and quiet. For good recreational sailors, we start topping out somewhere above 30 mph with conventional boards and sails. You need smaller fins, smoother water and more wind to exceed that.

For useful video, you may want to look into an end of the boom mount like Tinho used here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU7jCA00fEs

Randy has a very scientific and creative mind. He'll enjoy doing some R&D.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

I will have to try that. I think I have the parts for a boom launch. My 360 cam might be interesting as well.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
webguy wrote:

Stepan,

Randy has a very scientific and creative mind. He'll enjoy doing some R&D.

Your experimental hidrofoil fin is packed and waiting on my mailbox for USPS pickup expecting delivery in 2 days.
Thank you for helping to advance this.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Fin testing (via windsurf.tv) http://windsurfing.tv/video/k4-fin-testing-steve-thorp/

Link to Video
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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Recent videos #6 and #7 are an attempt to compare side-by-side on water a foil fin against the traditional fin. Canadian hole. NE 9knots. Both sail are the same size. You can see the foil makes it plane sooner and accelerate faster while the windsurfer without foil needs to go down wind to get on plane and struggling to get on speed for about 200 yards. Notice how clean the foil board goes on water while the non foil board makes much of turbulence. When wind increased to 15 knots non foil windsurfers did not have problems to get on plane for 200 yard and they moved a little faster while on fast plane compare to the foil board. The foil was the low speed foil with high lift, which is good for light wind - very common during the summer. I am getting a smaller fin foils with less drag for stronger winter winds to get advantage, perhaps at 15 knots. At 20 knots or stronger foil seems to be not making noticeable advantage in speed even if it is small. But it has shown benefits on gybes, tacks, acceleration, waves, and in combine pleasure of windsurfing. With the price tag same as the regular fin the foil fin will be a better buy since it brings more pleasure for the same money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=670fbolAVu0&t=134s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0jl1qp5-MA
I think the Polish fin foil VIRUS is designed incorrectly. It is also too complex => too expensive. Polish company shows very brief poor quality videos of its product while spending so much of effort on development. Polish videos appear to be hiding details. It took me no effort to take my detailed 7 videos to show advantages of the US made alternative. Based on the test of the US made fin foil I believe that Polish foil delivers much lift at the same wind as the US made foil but Polish foil has more drug. This is why we may not see side-to-side water riding comparison videos of the Polish fin foil vs a regular fin because it must be performing too poor at winds of >12 knots compare to regular fins. This makes $400 Polish fin foil a questionable item to purchase. For $400 it should be 2 times better compare to a $200 fin. If Polish fin foil is not better compare to a $200 fin so Polish foil should cost less, for example, $100 or so to be competitive in value/money ratio.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Happy New Year!
My appreciation to windsurfers from Atlanta for help with fin-foil testing.
We have had a few good days on Canadian Hole in NC to record side-by-side comparison. Out equipment: AHD 100 liters, 5m sail, 160 lbs sailor (fist year in windsurfing). Tested 2017 Fly-Fin from frpgear.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWCqOQDa-d8&t=301s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb2te6z6RrI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsiBjzzem0c
and more videos on youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4QpeSiatYtSYG4_tP7V7cg/videos?disable_polymer=1

Fin-foil has obvious advantage at wind speed when all others are just about to get on planning. At wind above 15 knots other boards are faster if operated by an experienced sailor. At stronger wind the foil-fin makes inexperienced sailor go faster compare to a similar inexperienced sailor with a regular fin. Experienced sailors seem to be able to go faster just because of the skill. They often have better equipment. The current conclusion is: under 15 knots an inexperienced sailor with a fin-foil has a significant advantage compare to experienced sailors with better equipment. The experienced sailor do not even go to windsurf under 15 knots because they cannot return back if they cannot get on planning. When wind dropped below 15 the only one windsurfer with a fin-foil was on water planning fast while all the others have been watching from the parking lot and waiting for wind.
The other good result is to confirm that the fin-foil lifts the whole board up, not just the behind of the board. Indeed you need to step back a little as you do at higher speed. The foot straps need to be moved back for 1"inch or so. But it depends on a board. The long 160 liter board was going too flat so you needed to step more to the back. The short 100 liter AHD did not need any adjustments. However, we need to say that our sailor has never sailed with a regular fin. This means that he has gotten used to the fin-foil and feels uncomfortable with a regular fin. I would assume that if you have been using a regular fin for 20 years you will feel uncomfortable with a hydrofoiling fin.The reason why our inexperienced sailor never used a regular fin is because he disliked the regular fin right after he used the fin-foil. It was because the fin-foil makes it easier to learn windsurfing - you get more support.
Another interesting discovery was ground effect - increase of lift when the foil gets close to the bottom. Practically, if you use the foil in shallow water the foil generates more lift with less drag. The distance from the foil to the bottom needs to be less than the wingspan. You can go over shallow spots and the ground effect will lift you up and will add speed. On Canadian hole our sailor started at about 30 feet from the shore line and others had to go our for 100 feet. This is probably why our beginner likes the fin-foil because it make the beach start easy.

It is now 17 degrees. We did the last test at 32F but our beginner sailor complained on his face freezing. Need to wait for min 40F ambient. We are getting a better sail 5.1m Niel Pride racing to get more accurate side-by-side comparison with usual participants at Canadian Hole at stronger wind. Will try 77 liter board so the foil will compensate the lift. It seems to be impossible to design the combination of foil+board to go faster at every wind conditions. If it goes better at <15 knots it is not as fast at >15. For wind speed over 15 it needs a smaller foil if the same board is used. I noticed many sailors have different boards for different wind conditions. They use bigger boards at lighter wind. It should be the same with foils. Larger foils for lighter wind. In order to do a correct comparison we need to compare a smaller board with a foil-fin against a larger board with a regular fin. The foil will compensate for low liters. We will see how it goes with 77 liters + fin-foil.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Any feedback from ‘experienced’ sailors? All I have seen are videos from the same windsurfer with only a year or so of experience. There are so many variables that account for the windsurfing experience - board volume/size/width, sail size, sailor weight, etc... I would like to hear some feedback from sailors using the same gear, but swapping back and forth on the different fin types. I love that you are trying some new ideas with fin designs, but us experienced need to hear some feedback from other experienced sailors before we take notice.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
nitrojiber wrote:

Any feedback from ‘experienced’ sailors? All I have seen are videos from the same windsurfer with only a year or so of experience. There are so many variables that account for the windsurfing experience - board volume/size/width, sail size, sailor weight, etc... I would like to hear some feedback from sailors using the same gear, but swapping back and forth on the different fin types. I love that you are trying some new ideas with fin designs, but us experienced need to hear some feedback from other experienced sailors before we take notice.

Word is the fin is small - versions on ebay are only 30cm. I applaud the inventors for working on new ideas but I have significant concerns about the basic assumptions underlying the design and some of the comments above and on youtube.

When the youtube video can't differentiate an Ezzy freerace and wave sail, I'm concerned that the tester and test rider may not have enough experience to truly understand the fin's performance vis-a-vis modern equipment.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
webguy wrote:

When the youtube video can't differentiate an Ezzy freerace and wave sail, I'm concerned that the tester and test rider may not have enough experience to truly understand the fin's performance vis-a-vis modern equipment.

Exactly! I watched some of the videos and came away with - "These guys really don't have enough experience/knowledge to provide any meaningful insight when comparing traditional vs the wing fin". These mistakes don't instantly discredit the fin concept, but if they can't correctly differentiate a wave vs a race sail, I am going to be skeptical.

From another video:
IMAGE(<a href="http://appvizo.com/Content/images/windsurfing/windsurfCompare.PNG" rel="nofollow">http://appvizo.com/Content/images/windsurfing/windsurfCompare.PNG</a>)
The commentary again just shows a lack of windsurfing knowledge. For all I know, the windsurfer with 20 years of experience is 75lb heavier, riding an 84L quad fin.

And I just got finished reading through their website. Plow through this snippet...

Quote:

The improvements invented by FRPGEAR’s hydrofoil Fly-Fins have caused the advanced opportunity of making yourself plane at the lightest wind conditions compared to any other windsurfing equipment. The large companies have extracted money ruthlessly without supporting their product with advantages as FRPGEAR does. Those large companies include jp, fanatic, starboard, and every other one in the windsurfing market. Their technique to ruthlessly make you buy their costly product is to brainwash their customers with propaganda. Their propaganda started when they made every windsurfer buy their narrow boards as when the sport came to being. They had to make more money from windsurfing customers by starting a propaganda mission of brainwashing their customers to buy costly super light wind, wide boards at $2000. The difference to plane earlier between a $2000 board, and the cheap, old boards was practically nothing. The difference between the old, cheap boards and the new wide costly boards is the money that those companies are extracting from windsurfing customers by brainwashing them on their ultra exaggerated benefits. The disadvantages of costly traditional hydrofoils, costly boards, costly traditional fins, and all the rest of the equipment from those tricky companies are that their new equipment that those companies keep selling by propaganda is impractical. The wide boards and traditional hydrofoils are more disadvantageous for travel than their propaganda of how their wide costly boards plane the earliest on the market. The buyer of those other companies’ disadvantageous products compared to FRPGEAR’s practical cost-effective product is shameful. The shameful victim of those disadvantageous products from jp, fanatic, starboard, and all the rest of them is left in despair to use the costly equipment with humiliation because of the uneconomical use of money that was made to expect to windsurf according to propaganda from those tricky companies.

Heck, I would love to try one of these fins out. Randy - did you ever get to try it out???

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

You'll have to ask Randy. I do know that he's enjoyed having his Formula Jr. back.

Thanks for quoting the blurb. Says so much that the author may not have realized.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
nitrojiber wrote:

Any feedback from ‘experienced’ sailors?

My experienced customers from Spain just contacted me today asking for an invoice. Apparently, Spanish custom hold my fins until you come and get them. I did not know that and the customers in Spain did not know. I sipped to Spain in October. Customers from UK, Poland, Russia, Norway, NewYork, Michigan, are probably waiting for ice to melt. Sold several part to TX, OR, WA, NC, VA but no comments yet. The good thing nobody claimed 100% refund I promised if they do not like it. As an experienced business owner I call this a good result for a startup business.
My experience in windsurfing started in 1978 when I built 3 windsurfers, booms and sails all by myself. I am a smaller guy on this old picture:
http://frpgear.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/windsurfer.336175758_std.jpg
TheVirus show a video with an experienced sailor: 3 seconds of actual windsurfer + 30 minutes of talking. The sailor does not say about any advantages and seems to be nice to the inventors. Read comments on thevirus Facebook - many comments are asking why they do not have more videos. This is why we have over 20 videos. If we have been able to save 20 videos showing advantage so thevirus should be able to do the same since they started about a year earlier than us. Our 20 videos taken within 2 months prove that it is easy to show the advantage. Thevirus is probably having a problem to come up with an advantage video. It is not easy to take an advantage video. You need to have somebody on water to compare. I think we did a good work with the videos -we have several side-by-side with other sailors. I have offered fly-fin to these sailor at Canadian hole but they were not interested. It seems like the windsurfers are more individualist today - not very interested to communicate. It was different in 1978 when I started to windsurf. Or, it may be because I spent to much time in SoCal.
So, we have established on the videos that an inexperienced sailor +Fly-Fin goes faster compare to an experienced sailor + regular fin. This covers my market area of inexperienced sailors - the largest portion of the market.
I agree that an experienced sailor would need an opinion from another experienced sailor. I am working on this with the US windsurfing association and they have offered to come to Miami for me to race against them. I am trying to make them race against themselves but with their best fin and my fly-fin for more accurate comparison.
I think the progress is going well. We had the first prototype in July and already sale more than we can make. The experienced test is not very urgent because we do not need the customer demand to explode because production is not capable to satisfy yet.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
nitrojiber wrote:

webguy wrote:

And I just got finished reading through their website. Plow through this snippet...

I already told to the principal of my son's high school to work on his writing. Education was much better when I was in HS in 1978.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
nitrojiber wrote:

When the youtube video can't differentiate an Ezzy freerace and wave sail, I'm concerned that the tester and test rider may not have enough experience to truly understand the fin's performance vis-a-vis modern equipment.

We have very similar EZZY 6.5 sail. The drama guy on the video has 6.1 EZZY. Our test rider has 5.1 MAUI wave. The Drama guy is as tall as my son and the same fit. My son is wearing a sweat suit under 3mm wet suit for better insulation + the safety west. The Drama guy is probably lighter weight.
I did not understand your comment about the sails. The point of the video is to show that even with a smaller wave sale you can go faster compare to a larger Ezzy sail. Wave sail is less aerodynamically efficient compare to the Ezzy sail. Do you mean the EZZY sail has more weight? may be a little more but the drama guy has 100% carbon mast and carbon boom and we have 40% carbon mast and aluminum boom. The drama guy has a larger board. He specifically changed the board for lighter wind and he was on planning very well at 15 knots until wind died to 8 and he could not return back home so he had to walk about a mile.You can see the wind chart on the video. Drama guy took the best board for light wind out of his van so he had the best arrangements for light wind.Our test sailor did not change anything and just kept planning nice and smooth without any experience and without understanding of the modern equipment. At the end of the video you can see drama guy is talking to a Canadian guy while looking at our test sailor. They are saying: "That inexperienced sailor do not truly understand the modern equipment." and you can see how they are unsatisfied about the inexperienced sailor not truly understanding the modern equipment. This is why I called it a windsurfing drama. Yes 3

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spiralbevel
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Joined: 09/19/2017 - 18:18
Posts: 17
Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

What I still do not understand is why Randy did not notice improvement what we noticed well all the time. I gave Randy an old prototype that was not the best but we noticed improvements on it. Randy did good work with videos. From the videos I do not understand why the only back of the board lifts up. Both our board: 160 slalom and 100L AMD come up entirely: nose and the back. We have had a problem in the very beginning the only back of the board came up on speed but we have fixed it easy by adjusting position. Just step back a little. Now when out test sailor has more experience he can bring the board completely out of water and balance a little distance just on the foil. Very good skill improvement in first year of windsurfing. I started to windsurf in 1978 and I am still not that good. I think Randy did not have enough time to get used to the fly-fin. If you use a regular fin for 20 years and then you try hydrofoil you need some time to get used to the foiling. Our beginner test runner has never used a regular fin. When he started to windsurf he alternated between the regular fin and the fly-fin. He like fly-fin more because it was much easier to learn windsurfing. It was more fun to learn because with fly-fin you are on planning all the time. Planning is the most enjoyable part of windsurfing. If you start learning windsurfing with a regular fin you will start getting on planning after a year or more and some people never get on planning. Most young beginners go for kite boarding because you start planning right away -no need to learn. many people try windsurfing and they give up because they never get on planning.
I think experienced sailor refused to try my fly-fin because they know that they would not look good on the foil. They probably assume that they will look funny because they do not have experience with foiling. I noticed that windsurfers in OBX, NC are very concerned about how they look. Perhaps they would love to try our fly-fin but they would do it when nobody is watching.
If to go back to the experience, I think, we have established that our test sailor has the world most experience with fly-fin. Our test rider is the subject matter expert in fly-fins. Considering how many fly-fins we have sold and when it is a safe bet to say that there are other fly-fin experts around the world but not so experienced yer compare to the one we used.
Demanding a review from an experienced windsurfer about a specific area of wind foiling is like asking a hot balloon pilot to review a new airplane.
I will email a usps label to Randy to ship the test foil back to us so we can double test by the world top expert in fin-foiling.

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