Virus Hybrid Foil

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Virus Hybrid Foil
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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

The link wants me to log into Faceplant but I am not a member of that exclusive society. Is this like some sort of attachment to your existing fin or a different design which places the wing higher up on the mast?

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Here's the text (w/o pictures) -

It's been a while... but we were working on something totally new that is going to change your windsurfing experience. We are at the very end of testing and developing performance to the next level. Fully demountable wing will make it easy to pack and change sizes to smaller/bigger one.

Early planning and jibing hasn't been that easy ever before ! More surface underneath the water let you "foil" easily through choppy water. You can forget about catching a spin out, it won't happen again Smile

You will have this kind of "foil" feeling which is pretty special but you can still push the board as much as you want and it will fit your current equipment, no doubts about that.

No flex option because all the lift that normally comes from stiffness, now is delivered from the wing. Basically it's working like an airplane wing with winglets. Winglets are set downwards, thats why all the air bubbles that are creating under the board and cause spin outs are now gone.

Hope you guys like it, let us now your first impressions Smile

We will have them available very soon so stay tuned !

Webpage -
http://www.thevirus.pl/

Gene

Gene Mathis

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Thanks Gene. Says will fit your existing equipment, but not completely clear to me whether that just means they will make masts for Power or Tuttle boxes, or that it fits on your current fin.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Randy, 99% sure that this is a single unit rather than an add on to a conventional foil. The engineering challenge is to mate the horizontal wing to a fin in a structurally sound manner without a ton of drag and provide an attachment where you can tune the wing angle. Most good large fins aren't appropriate for a retrofit because they have a certain amount of flex designed in and I think that these fins have the opposite - stiff as possible to keep the wing stable.

Cost is estimated at 380 euro. I'd contemplated something like this for a while before plunging full on to the "f" world.

Quote:

Basically our concept was to make (invent) something that is in between foil and a normal fin for affordable price. Foil feeling is pretty amazing but not everyone can simply afford that. This solution delivers a foil feeling which is generated from our asymmetrical wing which provides a lot of lift force (about 6 kilo with current wing size). The idea was to start planning as early as it's possible, it definitely lets you start planning earlier as there is a little bit more volume underneath the board thanks to wing. While we were testing there were some sideeffects that we didn't actually mean to achieve like, easier to make a jibe fully planning, absolutely no spin outs, super stability and certainly flying a little bit above the water on choppy conditions. The faster you go the more lift you get that's how it works. Lift force usually starts to work with speed of 6 knots (with foil it's probably the same) so when you start pumping and pushing on the board volume generated from the wing kind of starts lifting the board. If you have any more questions would love to hear them.

From this, it looks like it provides about 15 lbs (freedom units) of lift force. I guess, alternatively, for 380 euro less, I could eat fewer cheeseburgers. Biggrin

All kidding aside, with the technical challenge of foiling being what it is right now, I could see a lot of these getting sold.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Well Webster, I have pretty good recollection of you saying a while back that someone should develop a sort partial foil that got you planning quicker even if didn't lift you out of the water. You're a visionary. Yes 3

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

IMAGE(<a href="http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/99/995e537c3585ce664981911326281781af45ed4586049df06d9e77af02fb8370.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/99/995e537c3585ce664981911326281781af45ed4586049df06d9e77af02fb8370.jpg</a>)

--- The Arrogant Jerk: Crabby and irritable since 1998.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

From 1972 Popular Mechanics Shok

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
FoilDudê wrote:

From 1972 Popular Mechanics Shok

It seems that no matter how advanced the technology, there was a working prototype in Popular Mechanics in B&W. This, apparently, is the chosen method of messaging by travellers from the future.

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spiralbevel
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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

My son has been using a US made foil fin this summer in Outer banks NC. All the advantages that the polish company says I confirm. But there is more. My son just started windsurfing this summer using 160 liter Seatrend narrow US Made 16 years old board, EZZY 6.5 sail. Without the foil fin he looks like a beginner. With the foil fin he looks like the only person surfing - all other windsurfers look like just trying to windsurf. It is because the foil makes you plane much sooner. I measured 9 knot when he was on fast plane speed while all the other windsurfers could not get on plane. The place in NC is called Canadian Hole - the best place to windsrf in the US as Canadians say - many good windsurfers are there. The foil we got makes you the best particularly when the wind is light so nobody gets on plane , but only you. On the stronger wind you do not feel the transition from displacement lift to the planing lift - the transition to planing goes very smooth - no need to pump to get on plane. While on high speed you feel much less force on hands because of significantly lower water resistance (drug). It looks very unusual when you do not need to lean much to balance the force of the wind on sail and you go very fast. I am not a good windsurfer but I feel it like very little effort to go high speed. Acceleration is very fast. probably because no transition to planning. You go faster compare to kite boarders. May be you can go as fast as Kite foiling but with a larger sail, that we are not good with 9.5 yet and kites use 17 sq.m. Jumping on waves is much smoother and feels much more stable. Tacking feels like the board goes straight against the wind like these old mistral boards. You can go much sharper up wind. It is like you have a center board in addition to a long fin. The depth of that Made in USA hydrofoil fin is only 10 inch and it gives a better upwind angle compare to long board with the centerboard. I noticed that you can go up wing 45 deg without noticeable drifting even at low speed. My son says that it is much easier to windsurf. I noticed it too. It feels like you have a solid support under your feet and the small board does not sink like it used to without the foil. We have used it at maximum of 20 knots wind and you go very very fast at 20 knots wind. Without this Made in USA foil fin we would not be able to windsurf at 20 knots during out first windsurfing summer. I think skilled sailors will find more. The main what we found is an addiction. If you had ever had a foil fin you will never go back to your regular fin. We have changed fins to regular just to compare at different wind conditions and the regular fin was always disliked very much. It was disappointing to watch these poor windsurfers riding these regular fins while you fly by them smooth and fast with very little wake behind. I will post a video on youtube later so you can see. I do not see these fins for sale. Our foil fin is from my coworker we worked at Boeing together and I am retired and he does his composite business at frpgear.com doing some projects to aerospace and had a similar foil project for NASA and simply applied the concept to a windsurfer. I am not sure it it will ever go to production because the market is low unless somebody can suggest how to sale dozens of these so to keep the production cost down. But for the personal use to be the fastest surfer on Outer Banks it is a very good toy hidden under your board. BTW, my fin-foil does not look the fin foil posted picture by webguy. That Polish design looks like it has room for improvement from hydrodynamic prospective. I have a similar fin-foil and it is very good but not as good as the the best I have. I think it is not just a foil that makes the advantage. It is a combination of several elements resulting in efficient hydrodynamic system. The foil Polish foil as shown on the picture will push the board out of water so much at high wind so my board nose ditches into water. Interesting to see the final Polish production and compare to the US Made in garage. Yes 3

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

You might try listing it as a Kickstarter project. Or perhaps sell it as a kit.

In the meantime if you want any volunteers to test prototypes sign me up and I'm sure there would be others around here as well.

There is no off season.

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spiralbevel
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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
Randy wrote:

You might try listing it as a Kickstarter project. Or perhaps sell it as a kit.

In the meantime if you want any volunteers to test prototypes sign me up and I'm sure there would be others around here as well.

It may be a good idea to get it tested by someone else to confirm our initial experience.
What kind of fin box is on your board? I may have a foil fin with tuttle box. Or you can give me your old or broken fin with usable head so I can use it to make a foil that fits your board.
What kind of board?
At what min wind velocity you can get on plane. I will have a better idea how to design it. Or, I may have a used foil.
Thank you for the offer.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
spiralbevel wrote:

Randy wrote:

You might try listing it as a Kickstarter project. Or perhaps sell it as a kit.

In the meantime if you want any volunteers to test prototypes sign me up and I'm sure there would be others around here as well.

It may be a good idea to get it tested by someone else to confirm our initial experience.
What kind of fin box is on your board? I may have a foil fin with tuttle box. Or you can give me your old or broken fin with usable head so I can use it to make a foil that fits your board.
What kind of board?
At what min wind velocity you can get on plane. I will have a better idea how to design it. Or, I may have a used foil.
Thank you for the offer.

I have one of the early Starboard Go boards. It has a deep tuttle, but it will work with a regular tuttle. I use a 7.3 for light wind. I think it would plane around 10kt. I weigh 136 so it doesn't take much wind.

I have a video of the board in this thread.

https://windsurfatlanta.org/content/photos-saturday-9-9-17-9917

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spiralbevel
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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
Randy wrote:

I have one of the early Starboard Go boards. It has a deep tuttle, but it will work with a regular tuttle. I use a 7.3 for light wind. I think it would plane around 10kt. I weigh 136 so it doesn't take much wind.

I have a video of the board in this thread.

https://windsurfatlanta.org/content/photos-saturday-9-9-17-9917

I have a fin foil with deep tuttle for you to test. It is not the best we tested but you will be see the difference. Here are some videos if you can see ho the windsurfer goes with foil. My son is a light as you and with 6.5 2012 EZZY ge goes on plane before 9knots. But we may have different definitions of planing. On the videos I call planing when the board moves on the very top surface of water so you can see the board all the way flat skimming nicely and looking fast and speedy. I think the scientific definition of planing is when the hydrodynamic lift is as high as the weight of the vessel - this does not mean a nice good looking surfing. If you email me you delivery address I can ship you the part to try.
https://youtu.be/KW8V8ioMEno
https://youtu.be/TaNV1fHwDJs
https://youtu.be/1LxGR_0UDFg
https://youtu.be/efUt6S1QW9s
https://youtu.be/DwNXS3XwA6o

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Great! I will send you a private message with my address. Anxious to try it.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Stepan,
I worked on an email to you this evening but I need to edit it as it eventually became a long essay. If you do send something this way, I can get with Randy and we can do so testing together with foils, formula boards, etc.

Just a few things very quickly
- if your son is about Randy's size, the equivalent sail size for a larger male windsurfer might be 9.0 or more.
- The measurements I saw in most of the videos were in offshore winds and even with the wind meter downwind of you. Those probably aren't dependable readings because of surrounding obstacles to the wind.
- The appeal of foils isn't speed. As mentioned in that link about fins and drag I sent, foils hit a speed barrier much lower than planing boards. The more you have underwater, the lower your maximum. Foils just get you on top of the water with less power so you can use less sail and/or less wind - plus it's amazingly smooth and quiet. For good recreational sailors, we start topping out somewhere above 30 mph with conventional boards and sails. You need smaller fins, smoother water and more wind to exceed that.

For useful video, you may want to look into an end of the boom mount like Tinho used here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU7jCA00fEs

Randy has a very scientific and creative mind. He'll enjoy doing some R&D.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

I will have to try that. I think I have the parts for a boom launch. My 360 cam might be interesting as well.

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spiralbevel
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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
webguy wrote:

Stepan,

Randy has a very scientific and creative mind. He'll enjoy doing some R&D.

Your experimental hidrofoil fin is packed and waiting on my mailbox for USPS pickup expecting delivery in 2 days.
Thank you for helping to advance this.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
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spiralbevel
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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil

Recent videos #6 and #7 are an attempt to compare side-by-side on water a foil fin against the traditional fin. Canadian hole. NE 9knots. Both sail are the same size. You can see the foil makes it plane sooner and accelerate faster while the windsurfer without foil needs to go down wind to get on plane and struggling to get on speed for about 200 yards. Notice how clean the foil board goes on water while the non foil board makes much of turbulence. When wind increased to 15 knots non foil windsurfers did not have problems to get on plane for 200 yard and they moved a little faster while on fast plane compare to the foil board. The foil was the low speed foil with high lift, which is good for light wind - very common during the summer. I am getting a smaller fin foils with less drag for stronger winter winds to get advantage, perhaps at 15 knots. At 20 knots or stronger foil seems to be not making noticeable advantage in speed even if it is small. But it has shown benefits on gybes, tacks, acceleration, waves, and in combine pleasure of windsurfing. With the price tag same as the regular fin the foil fin will be a better buy since it brings more pleasure for the same money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=670fbolAVu0&t=134s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0jl1qp5-MA
I think the Polish fin foil VIRUS is designed incorrectly. It is also too complex => too expensive. Polish company shows very brief poor quality videos of its product while spending so much of effort on development. Polish videos appear to be hiding details. It took me no effort to take my detailed 7 videos to show advantages of the US made alternative. Based on the test of the US made fin foil I believe that Polish foil delivers much lift at the same wind as the US made foil but Polish foil has more drug. This is why we may not see side-to-side water riding comparison videos of the Polish fin foil vs a regular fin because it must be performing too poor at winds of >12 knots compare to regular fins. This makes $400 Polish fin foil a questionable item to purchase. For $400 it should be 2 times better compare to a $200 fin. If Polish fin foil is not better compare to a $200 fin so Polish foil should cost less, for example, $100 or so to be competitive in value/money ratio.

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Re: Virus Hybrid Foil
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