Save your broken carbon masts and booms

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Randy's picture
Randy
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Joined: 05/05/2002 - 10:38
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Save your broken carbon masts and booms

I saw a show on Science Channel last night about recycling. A company in South Carolina has figured out how to recycle carbon fiber. They showed taking carbon bicycles and recycling them to become the body for racing cars. So I guess the question is whether they can use broken carbon masts, booms, and batten tubes (and more important - what they would pay for them) and can they use less than 100% carbon. We all have broken masts - usually the top half remains. There may be something to do with them. Here is a link to their web page.

http://www.emergingmit.com/about_us/facilities

What happens in a black hole stays in a black hole.

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Joined: 01/24/2012 - 14:11
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Re: Save your broken carbon masts and booms

Do we have to separate out the aluminum and plastic or will they take the recycling as is?

Waste carbon fiber is a bit of a problem in China where they make a lot of the "American" bikes you love. (Looking at you Specialized.)

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/photos-of-carbon-fibre-bike-dump-reveal-worrying-waste-levels/

--- The Arrogant Jerk: Crabby and irritable since 1998.

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Randy's picture
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Re: Save your broken carbon masts and booms

So do carbon bikes break without notice like masts? If so, then it seems like that could be pretty unpleasant for the rider. Breaking a mast or boom on water sucks, but you probably won't do any worse than get wet. If your bike just decides to break into pieces, while you are going 20 miles an hour - could sort of suck in a much more painful way, and breaks some of your calcium parts as well.....

What happens in a black hole stays in a black hole.

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Joined: 12/31/2000 - 22:01
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Re: Save your broken carbon masts and booms

The rubbish you see in the pic are factory rejects.

In the last few years, the big manufacturers have it pretty much figured out. Forks, especially, are ridiculously over-engineered. Testing has gotten much better and more rigorous. For the big guys (Trek, etc.) the the cost of warranty replacements is too great to send something out the door that might break JRA (just ridin' around) not to mention liability costs.

This should help you feel better:

Watching that makes you wonder how much Santa Cruz would charge for a mast.

Carbon fiber longevity:

http://cyclingtips.com/2015/08/what-is-the-lifespan-of-a-carbon-frame/

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Re: Save your broken carbon masts and booms

Don't try that last one with one of your masts.

I suppose the mast makers have a harder job because they need to make something that will bend without breaking, while the bike isn't supposed to bend.

What happens in a black hole stays in a black hole.

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Re: Save your broken carbon masts and booms

Au contraire. Flex is important in cycling. The trick is to get it to flex in the correct direction. It used to be "stiff, stiff, stiff!" until everyone realized those bikes rode like pooh and were slower over distance. A running joke is the marketing cliche: laterally rigid, vertically compliant. Every bike maker claims that quality - even if their bikes ride like pigs. (Inside secret: tire width and pressure are much more important)

Both Jim C and Barrett, iirc, have a Domane.

But you are correct (imho) in that we flex our masts much further and in more brutal conditions.

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Re: Save your broken carbon masts and booms

"Tire pressure is more important." Tire Pressure (for bikes) = Downhaul (for sails)? Yes 3

?

What happens in a black hole stays in a black hole.

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Re: Save your broken carbon masts and booms
randy wrote:

"Tire pressure is more important." Tire Pressure (for bikes) = Downhaul (for sails)? Yes 3

?

Yeah, except that they are inverse. Less tire pressure is preferred now and for the inexperienced windsurfer, more downhaul (and probably not much outhaul) than they are likely to use.

For any of you bikies out there: http://trstriathlon.com/talking-tires-with-joshua-poertner/
Josh was one of the designers of the first carbon rims, Zipp, to conquer Paris-Roubaix, a race famed for its cobblestone sectors which absolutely wreck anything but the most robust equipment and riders.

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Joined: 12/23/2003 - 23:07
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Re: Save your broken carbon masts and booms

The tire pressure article is interesting. I've have to try lower pressure.

Barrett

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Joined: 06/09/2003 - 15:33
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Re: Save your broken carbon masts and booms

Tire pressure is important on dirt bikes too. I run tubliss system in my KTM 450. This allows me to reduce rear pressure to 5 lbs and front pressure to 8 lbs. This causes the tire to become lose and flexible, allowing the tire to conform to the ground it is riding on. If the pressure were higher say 15 lbs then the tire would be very bouncy and would not stick well but gas mileage would be greater. If you are using 75 lbs on a bike tire then the tire is very hard and has minimal rolling resistance thus easier to peddle and gain greater speed. Try using your 75 lbs inflation on a dirt course with no suspension. Tell me how you like that.

If I used low pressure on the dirt bike it only gives me better traction in all circumstances. I don't care about rolling resistance because I am powered by 69 horses. And there is a big plus to low pressure. That would be a softer ride.

More interesting reading might be understanding the coefficient of sliding friction from you physics classes in college.

PeelSkid

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Re: Save your broken carbon masts and booms
peelskid wrote:

... If you are using 75 lbs on a bike tire then the tire is very hard and has minimal rolling resistance thus easier to peddle and gain greater speed.

That's the misconception the article above is trying to correct - very hard tires aren't necessarily fast (and very hard in roadie terms is 110-120). and on anything but the absolute smoothest surfaces, they aren't. Another guy, Jan Heine, has been saying this for years and helped popularize performance road tires as wide as 42mm.

btw, pedal = that thing your foot pushes on a bike. peddle = when you go door to door selling vacuum cleaners Biggrin

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webguy
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Re: Save your broken carbon masts and booms

Cool video about carbon bikes, their construction and repair. Pretty cool information about carbon fiber, in general, too.

No subtitles if you don't understand or speak 'strayin.

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Jim_Crooks
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Joined: 07/11/2004 - 13:43
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Re: Save your broken carbon masts and booms

It turns out that there is a downside to reducing tire pressure. I told my wife about this research and she of course rejected it as heresy. But she relaxed her "120lb" regimen. After a couple of rides, she (we) experienced the joy of a pinch flat. It turns out that reducing the tire pressure increases the likelihood of a pinch flat. While partially inflated tires might be able to "conquer Paris-Roubaix", the famous Suwanee-Buford ride requires more care.

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webguy
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Re: Save your broken carbon masts and booms

Edited because I'm an idiot

It is possible that your gauge isn't accurate.

Quote:
Our first test with CSC in the Arenburg that year brought highly variable results, ones which made no real sense and left our team, the riders, and the staff feeling uneasy. The breakthrough came when we realized that amongst the 3 pumps on the team truck, we had a variability of 12psi when inflating to 70. This all came in a fit of frustration when we plugged two of the pumps together on a valve stem ripped our of a tube, pumping the one to 70psi had the other pump showing 64psi and plumbing it to the third gave us 76psi. Considering that we had been working to optimize pressures for riders like Thor Hushovd down in the region of 64 front / 70 rear, it was no wonder we were having intermittent failures and other issues.

We were facing as much as 12 psi pressure difference depending on which pump was being used!

https://silca.cc/pages/road-to-roubaix-part-2-tires-and-pressures-are-everything

My topeak floor pump is 20 lbs off at least.

More interesting tire stuff: https://silca.cc/blogs/journal

btw some faves in 25mm

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/continental-gp4000s-ii-folding-tyre/ (They have a twin pack for $63)
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/schwalbe-one-folding-tyre/

The Contis are real popular. I also have a set of Veloflex Masters and Vittoria Open Corsa Cx in 25 and they ride like butta' but these are a bit more fragile.

For those curious, more on width, tire pressure and rolling resistance:
http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/conti-gp4000s-ii-23-25-28

Again, sorry she rode over a copperhead.

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Jim_Crooks
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Joined: 07/11/2004 - 13:43
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Re: Save your broken carbon masts and booms

She has 25s on her bike. Thanks for all the info, I'll review it.

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webguy's picture
webguy
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Re: Save your broken carbon masts and booms

And that's how I got my good friend, Jim, in the dog house.

Sad

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