best of 2 options

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Balboa
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best of 2 options

I finally got a board, Naish hoverglide 135L, now I'm looking for a foil set. Anyone have opinions, good or bad, about either the NP Glide HP Surf 19 or F-one gravity2200 for a starter?
Thanks.

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webguy
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Joined: 12/31/2000 - 22:01
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Re: best of 2 options

How much do you weigh? The F-One wing would be favored if you are bigger.

Neither brand is very well represented in the US. I have the older NP blue L and XL wings plus a new HA1300 windfoil set. The NP seems pretty well thought out and not too expensive. Probably the challenge is the availability of wings here in the states. I bought the HA set from overseas - closeout '21 at a really good price. Biggest reason I went NP is because simply by switching fuses, I can use both for wind and wingfoil. The new HA wings were designed by Kane De Wilde so they should perform reasonably well.

Looking around, while NP wings seem to be available individually, are you seeing that the F-One's are without having to by the whole fuse/stab set, too? Both windance and MacKite seem to only sell them by the set. One thing I can say is that most wingers start buying wings like candy as their skills increase and they can take advantage of smaller, faster and turnier wings and stabs. OTOH, Axis, Armstrong, SABFoil, etc offer lots more options if you are prone to tinkering and customizing.

Any reason you aren't looking at a Naish foil set? Neil can correct or expand on this but in the past the tracks on the Naish boards often don't set up well with other brands. Sounds like you may be looking for foils at MacKite - probably worth getting their input, too.

Edit: Not a bad idea to ask or at least search on the various forums like https://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Wing-Foiling/Wind-Wings and https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/board,91.0.html Don't be surprised if you see a bunch of recommendations for more expensive kit however. Biggrin

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Balboa
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moredownhaul
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Re: best of 2 options

Take a Look at the Sab Foil (Moses) Aluminum models.
Since they have a new Kracken system coming out soon maybe the previous systems will go on clearance.

Several of us use and started out on Moses and I’ve never heard a negative comment about them.

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Balboa
Balboa
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Re: best of 2 options

I’m around 200lbs. I’m looking at getting a complete lower foil setup but not wanting to invest a whole lot until I figure out if I’m going to be able to make it work. I’m $1000 in with wing and board and trying to stay as close as I can to $2k all in. I have looked at naish and Moses, but the used ones I’ve seen aren’t much less than new. F1 2100 complete setup is about $1k new online, so that’s the main reason I’m looking at that one.
My thought is that if I end up scrapping the whole thing I ought to be able to unload my complete kit without taking too much of a loss. Of course I may be completely delusional.

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webguy
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Re: best of 2 options

Yeah, it's still a young sport so good used gear is hard to come by. Mainly people upgrading from alu to carbon or progressing to smaller, faster wings.

Not that you haven't already put a bit of money towards this but my advice (I love spending other people's money) is get what is going to give you the best chance for success. Sounds like you have with the board purchase. Don't get too hung up about an extra hundred if it gets you the foil you really need to have a balanced set up and offers you options as you improve. And good gear tends to have better resale, anyway. Not saying that either of the foils you've asked about don't (one of which I own) but be open-minded about your needs and what gear fits better for your goals and needs.

My impression as someone who weighs in at the low end of the spectrum is go with what MacKite or whomever suggest is the easiest to get up on for someone your size. The next five months are going to have lighter winds generally and you'll want as much lift and power as you can get most days. There will be some windy days but June through early September are not know to be windy in the SE. By the time fall winds roll around, you'll have a better sense of what gear you'll want next (if anything).

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Balboa
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SupSurfXcursions
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Joined: 12/30/2019 - 14:46
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Re: best of 2 options

Totally agree with William!!! You’re better off spending $1,500 on the foil if it’s going to work versus $1,000 and you’re going to struggle. The Naish boards do have a reputation of not pairing well with different brand foils. The center of lift is different on each brand of foil system.
Be careful buying first generation gear. There has been crazy changes in the engineering just over the last year. Foiling isn’t the easiest sport to learn, so having the wrong gear can make things torturous. Are you Windfoiling or Winging. I can’t offer specific advise for Windfoiling, William is the guru, but if you’re Winging I could give you feedback if you find something that you want to buy. Having a budget makes perfect sense, but scour the message boards before pulling the trigger so you can have the best chance for success.

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Balboa
webguy
HamdiD
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Re: best of 2 options
webguy wrote:

(I love spending other people's money)

I don’t have much of an advice on gear but I can attest to webguy’s self diagnosis above. I got into windsports 3.5 yrs ago with intention to get 1 board and max 2 sails. About a year later I met webguy and, since then, I am up to 5 boards, 10-12 sails, gone thru 2 sets of foils (occurrences set with multiple wing sets), and all the auxiliary stuff (masts, booms, etc) that go with that. Be aware!

To be clear, I am NOT complaining, just stating the facts!😀😀

PS: webguy might chime in and point out all the money he saved me by talking me out of even more purchases- which is true too. I am nothing if not fair 😉

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webguy
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SupSurfXcursions
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Re: best of 2 options

Here’s my ownership trail for 2 years
Fanatic Sky SUP 6’7 125L
Duotone 4m
Naish 6m & 4m Wing
GoFoil Kit with NL160 add + new tail
Naish Carbon Hover 95L
Starboard 7m
Armstrong Foil kit with V2 1550, 1850 & 2400
Takoon 85L Comet
F-one Stike 5m & 7m
Takoon 6m
Armstrong HA1125 with V-tail
Armstrong 100cm Mast, HA1325 & HA925 front Foils
Armstrong HA192 Tail
Armstrong V1 3.5m Wing
Foot straps, leashes, wetsuits etc!!
Golf Cart to carry gear to beach!!

OMG!! Don’t tell my wife!!
PS: The most fun I have ever had in the water…have surfed, sailed, SUP’d for over 30 years

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HamdiD
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webguy
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Re: best of 2 options
SupSurfXcursions wrote:

Be careful buying first generation gear. There has been crazy changes in the engineering just over the last year.

Oh... really good point on the Naish foils. The 1st generation (Thrust, iirc) was okay by the standard of the time but is pretty lackluster compared to the new stuff, but the S25 was a bit better. When they hit their stride with the HA wings, things really got better over all. They have tended not to always have new stuff backwards compatible so if you want the widest selection of wings, etc, go as new as your wallet can take.

Similar to what happened with NeilPryde although their backwards compatibility on the FoilGlide series has been good. The blue wings worked well for the time but the red HA wings are definitely a step up in all round performance. People weren't idiots in 2018/19 - more that as we got better, we learned more what characteristics in wings worked best. First gen wingfoil wings tended to be thicker and lower aspect as the prevailing wisdom was that a big wing that got you up at a low speed was a preferred characteristic. As people started to push the envelope, they found they could get by with smaller, HA wings which got out of the water quicker than a lot of people thought smaller wings would ie they weren't giving up much bottom end at all in return for quicker, lower drag wings. Lower drag wings aren't necessarily for speed, though, the ability to glide further in your transition means you have more time to make it through a tack or jibe before you lose enough speed to come off the foil.

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with a big, thick wing for a beginner. It's just to make sure that you have options as you progress - you don't have to chuck your whole foil set and start from scratch (ie get the line of gear you should have gotten in the first place). Similar thing with masts - as you get better, you'll probably want a longer one and maybe a carbon. You don't need either to start or maybe ever but nice to know when you are ready, they'll be available.

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HamdiD
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Re: best of 2 options

Until now, I could not definitively point out to my wife anyone whose quiver would for sure rival my combined investment in my current sports (windsurfing, rowing, mtn biking, kayaking, SUP). Well, thanks to Neil’s list above, that problem is solved!

Webguy, with that boost from Neil’s list, I might be ready to chat about what else I could waste spend money on 😀

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Randy
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Re: best of 2 options

This all reminds me of when I got into windsurfing near the end of the last century. After having bought sail after sail from various shops and locals (webguy included) my wife asked me "Are these sails like disposable?"

What happens in a black hole stays in a black hole.

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HamdiD
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webguy
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Re: best of 2 options
SupSurfXcursions wrote:

Here’s my ownership trail for 2 years Fanatic Sky SUP 6’7 125L Duotone 4m Naish 6m & 4m Wing GoFoil Kit with NL160 add + new tail Naish Carbon Hover 95L Starboard 7m Armstrong Foil kit with V2 1550, 1850 & 2400 Takoon 85L Comet F-one Stike 5m & 7m Takoon 6m Armstrong HA1125 with V-tail Armstrong 100cm Mast, HA1325 & HA925 front Foils Armstrong HA192 Tail Armstrong V1 3.5m Wing Foot straps, leashes, wetsuits etc!! Golf Cart to carry gear to beach!!

OMG!! Don’t tell my wife!! PS: The most fun I have ever had in the water…have surfed, sailed, SUP’d for over 30 years

Tell me you have a problem without telling me you have a problem. ROFL

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rgenet
Balboa
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Joined: 04/07/2022 - 23:09
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Re: best of 2 options

Thanks for all the input. I found a deal on a 2020 used NP to keep me under $2k for board, wing, and foil. If I manage to improve to needing a better kit, I don’t think I’ll be too disappointed and my kids can play on this one. Hopefully by fall I can join you guys at West Point and y’all can get a good laugh at my bargain basement Frankenstein ensemble.

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webguy
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webguy
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Re: best of 2 options

Blue wings? Did you get an XL wing?

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Balboa
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Re: best of 2 options

That's what I got.2020XL front with a 2021 stab. As I said in my first post a couple of weeks ago, my primary goal is to just get moving in the direction I want to go. Any time I can get on the foil will be extra icing on the cake. I'll let you know how it goes.

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webguy